Author Topic: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules  (Read 5480 times)

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Offline Michael

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2018, 04:18:42 PM »
Yes. That's what I'm trying to say. No one but you and Mahonz believes me, though.  I'm not certain my OC believes me.  :D

Early in the season, it's a wash at best. LBs have the edge until the backs learn to appreciate all that real estate.

People put in boundaries for Oklahoma to help the defenders, not to help the back.
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Online gumby_in_co

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2018, 04:29:05 PM »
Speaking of smartsplits, I've thought of two different ways to look at it....any feedback?

First way..... start at 12"-18"each player widens to 24"+ if he is uncovered, stays at 12"-18" if covered


Second way..... Start at 24" and only guards can move - in if covered, out if uncovered....Tackle is ALWAYS 6 feet from center.

I guess it probably ends up the same either way? How are you guys teaching smart splits?

First way is about how this all started. It was "progressive splits", but we encouraged the o-line to take chances and gradually widen out.  Over time, splits got wider, yards piled up and next thing I know, we have splits that really shouldn't work.
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Offline Michael

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2018, 04:31:23 PM »
Our rule was that if the split was a problem on the previous play, go to what you had on the play before that.  If the split was not a problem on the previous play, go a little wider.

It took about 10 plays in practice before out right tackle had a 7-1/2' split.
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Offline morris

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2018, 05:52:48 PM »
Extrapolate on how they decide front side or backside all things being equal (Meaning) Head Up on Center and Tackle.  What does the Guard do?
Frontside is playside. Backside is away from playside.

Even front
PST Solo
PSG & C combo DT
BSG & T combo DT
Read DE

Odd front
PST & PSG combo
C & BSG combo N
T through B gap to FBI

Bear
PST solo
PSG solo
C & BSG combo
BST DT

In general it works like
You are covered either play side or back side. Play side check head up to head up to your play side teammate. If not covered play side look to your backside gap to backside teammate

If T is covered and the there is someone outside of the PST we can push the count if we want. Doesn’t take much to get it right.

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2018, 06:30:10 PM »
Frontside is playside. Backside is away from playside.

Even front
PST Solo
PSG & C combo DT
BSG & T combo DT
Read DE

Odd front
PST & PSG combo
C & BSG combo N
T through B gap to FBI

Bear
PST solo
PSG solo
C & BSG combo
BST DT

In general it works like
You are covered either play side or back side. Play side check head up to head up to your play side teammate. If not covered play side look to your backside gap to backside teammate

If T is covered and the there is someone outside of the PST we can push the count if we want. Doesn’t take much to get it right.

Gotcha.  Makes sense.  Now you had to know this was coming...How about Gapped defender between  C/G  and  G/T who does the Guard chose?   
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Offline CmartCoach

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2018, 07:08:57 PM »
My splits are, at most, 2 feet.  We dont use Mega.

Hence the question of What does the guard do?

If the two DL in question are equally distant from the Guard, he would call the combo to the playside defender.
Cmart

Offline morris

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2018, 08:21:58 PM »
Gotcha.  Makes sense.  Now you had to know this was coming...How about Gapped defender between  C/G  and  G/T who does the Guard chose?   
If there is a defender in the A gap and B gap just follow your rule. By definition for us G takes B gap and C takes A gap. If there is no one outside the PST (unlikely) then the PST could double back with the PSG. I would guess you in that look you would have A, B and C gap defenders so pretty much everyone fans out and the RB is coming out the back door.

Now not trying to play who has the chalk last here. If we got an A gap and B gap defender depending on the rest you f the front we could send the Zone the opposite direction. We do that at times depending on the front and LBs. Lots of LBs on our level flow to the side away from the back. So when our RB starts toward the A gap they have a hard time reading it. Then the RB cuts and it looks like a cutback but it’s actually the playside.

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2018, 08:52:00 PM »
Now not trying to play who has the chalk last here.

Not my intent at all.  In fact it just goes to prove that Zone is not as cut a dried or as Magical as some folks would believe.  It has wrinkles just like Rule Blocking.  Which means Run what you understand and can teach.  Results are the end game.   8) 
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Offline morris

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2018, 09:40:24 PM »
When I said that about the chalk I was talking about myself. I was just trying to explain our thought process. I didn’t want to come across like some guys do. I don’t want you thinking I was referring to you. Discussions like this help me make sure I can communicate things clearly. I completely agree about what you can teach. I think there are probably better ways to do things at times but I just suck at teaching that way.

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2018, 10:08:12 PM »
I think when we expand on things just a few layers deeper it helps everyone.  To your point, I am not the best at typing, fingers get caught between the keys.  I like Chalk, its easily erased (Changed).    8)
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Offline CmartCoach

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2018, 08:39:49 AM »
We tell our kids that its the OLs job to make sure the DL finish the game with zero tackles. Hook up and move them out of the way. Its our RBs job to make sure the LB nearest the point of attack (playside A Gap on IZ) doesn't tackle him before he GETS 4.  Its the H- Back's (or QB in READ if H- Back is not in the box) job to make sure back side EMOL does not make the tackle and the playcallers job to make sure the other LBs don't make the play.

Online gumby_in_co

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2018, 03:18:19 PM »
Okay, really stupid question. Why is this called zone blocking? There are clearly rules that determine which man you block.

Around the time that I first heard the term "zone blocking" thrown around, the Broncos were using it to great success under Alex Gibbs. I was a DW guy at the time and I remembered another youth coach telling me how he was going to teach "zone blocking like the Broncos". I asked what that meant and he explained that instead of blocking a man you block an area. He gave up on it after 2 games because apparently "areas" don't make many tackles, but "men" do.
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Offline Michael

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2018, 03:36:12 PM »
Okay, really stupid question. Why is this called zone blocking? There are clearly rules that determine which man you block.

Around the time that I first heard the term "zone blocking" thrown around, the Broncos were using it to great success under Alex Gibbs. I was a DW guy at the time and I remembered another youth coach telling me how he was going to teach "zone blocking like the Broncos". I asked what that meant and he explained that instead of blocking a man you block an area. He gave up on it after 2 games because apparently "areas" don't make many tackles, but "men" do.

Yeah, well, that's exactly why people on here talk past each other when it comes to zone and a lot of them never realize they're talking about two different things.

And it's why so many new guys on here get so confused.

And why I almost never comment on zone threads.

I first learned about zone at the C.O.O.L. Clinic, so to me, zone is a type of man blocking.  However, I am aware that there is also a "step and climb and block what you hit" school.  The view of most of the crowd in that school seems to tend to be a little narrower, however.

And it's called "zone" because the two guys in the combo will each end up with the defender on their side, rather than switching sides.  At least that's how Mudd (in the 60s) and then McNally (in the 80s) looked at it.  They certainly looked at it as man blocking rather than area blocking, of course.  After that, things hit the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" portion of the program, and so here we are.



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Offline Michael

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2018, 03:41:43 PM »
Okay, really stupid question. Why is this called zone blocking? There are clearly rules that determine which man you block.

Around the time that I first heard the term "zone blocking" thrown around, the Broncos were using it to great success under Alex Gibbs. I was a DW guy at the time and I remembered another youth coach telling me how he was going to teach "zone blocking like the Broncos". I asked what that meant and he explained that instead of blocking a man you block an area. He gave up on it after 2 games because apparently "areas" don't make many tackles, but "men" do.

By the way, I just sent you a PM with more info that relates to this that I don't want to post on the board, since it relates to a specific team/scheme.
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Offline Seabass

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2018, 04:20:12 PM »
Gumby...have you ever seen the baseline hit a shot in a basketball game...of course not...players make shots not areas.

That said....I see crappy zone defense being played on basketball courts all over my state. Some basketball coaches are clearly struggling with the concept of a "zone" as well.