Author Topic: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching  (Read 5318 times)

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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #60 on: April 20, 2018, 12:28:53 PM »
We apply those rules(R4) to everything. Even boots & rolls. Take a roll right 3rd step is rhythm 5th step is read, 7th is rush, 9th release. Going left it becomes 4,6,8,10. The ability to communicate this with our QB's is priceless.

Coaching wise it gives you a way to teach & communicate clearly.

Joe
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Bill Walsh

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #61 on: April 20, 2018, 12:53:06 PM »
Hopefully, it will explain the communication in video 2.  Right now "throw it to the guy I tell you to" is making a lot more sense.

Had a long talk with Mahonz about this. I want to study concepts so I can take my understanding of the passing game to the next level. He said and I agree that it will take us around 4 seasons to get a QB to where he can read a concept within the constraints of coverage and protection. Right now, we're happy with "throw it to the guy I tell you to". What we're losing is the ability to take advantage of post snap situations. I feel that learning concepts will still help me in my pre snap role. I've been doing it to a lesser degree by building route combinations using my understanding of defensive coverage. For me the "next level" is developing combinations that take advantage of different coverages and learning to recognize those coverages quickly.

This thread has been very helpful in identifying some favorite concepts that I can study and draw up against different defenses. This won't be applicable to our Spring season because defenses have been really, really bad. Great players, but really bad scheme, spacing, assignment and knowledge.
Mission Statement: To create a Football Family that our players and parents can't imagine not being a part of.

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2018, 01:07:12 PM »
L

When you learn a concept, it then will evolve over time. Take Smash, simple high low concept working on a CB. When we first learned Smash it was the early 80's & Coach Davis really was the guru. It was a mirrored route Smash to both sides. Time & defensive development has changed how run Smash, & how we teach it.

First, defenses were able to run to the corner hard with the Safeties & the CB's would try to bait the throws. We evolved to Smash being a one side thing with a vertical & a shallow. Now the defense had to play it honest keeping defenders from simply running to a route & vacating a Zone. By changing what we were doing we also now fit into all the throws.

Next, if instead of a hitch #1 ran a slant. Well it's still a Smash concept, same teaching. This is where more can be less. When we teach certain concepts the variables really don't change the concept.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh

Offline mahonz

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #63 on: April 20, 2018, 01:24:25 PM »
Had a long talk with Mahonz about this. I want to study concepts so I can take my understanding of the passing game to the next level. He said and I agree that it will take us around 4 seasons to get a QB to where he can read a concept within the constraints of coverage and protection. Right now, we're happy with "throw it to the guy I tell you to". What we're losing is the ability to take advantage of post snap situations. I feel that learning concepts will still help me in my pre snap role. I've been doing it to a lesser degree by building route combinations using my understanding of defensive coverage. For me the "next level" is developing combinations that take advantage of different coverages and learning to recognize those coverages quickly.

This thread has been very helpful in identifying some favorite concepts that I can study and draw up against different defenses. This won't be applicable to our Spring season because defenses have been really, really bad. Great players, but really bad scheme, spacing, assignment and knowledge.

L

What you will discover is that you have been running concepts for years.

Here is Coach Eiens teaching tool we talked about. There are about 25 videos in the series. I like the way he steps you thru everything without getting too advanced.

https://youtu.be/t08GIGRI2LQ
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #64 on: April 20, 2018, 01:39:23 PM »
M

This is actually the older way things were done. There is many evolutions since the video, they were done 6 years ago. Take Stick we have evolved Stick so much over the last 5 years. It really has gone from inside out to outside in. Then we made it a 3 man Route.

Sick is also one of those concepts that works great from Bunch. #1 runs the Stick, #2(Point Man) runs a push corner, & #3 runs an Out.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh

Offline mahonz

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #65 on: April 20, 2018, 03:09:29 PM »
M

This is actually the older way things were done. There is many evolutions since the video, they were done 6 years ago. Take Stick we have evolved Stick so much over the last 5 years. It really has gone from inside out to outside in. Then we made it a 3 man Route.

Sick is also one of those concepts that works great from Bunch. #1 runs the Stick, #2(Point Man) runs a push corner, & #3 runs an Out.

Joe

Maybe some links to the upgrades can help. I found Bruce's body of work a great teaching tool non the less.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #66 on: April 20, 2018, 04:03:42 PM »
L

What you will discover is that you have been running concepts for years.

Here is Coach Eiens teaching tool we talked about. There are about 25 videos in the series. I like the way he steps you thru everything without getting too advanced.

https://youtu.be/t08GIGRI2LQ

Yeah, I found them via Google the other day and started watching them. In my brief stint as passing coordinator, I "invented" Smash. Meaning, I didn't know it was a thing at the time and just came up with it.  I just knew I could put a CB/Safety pair in conflict. I was throwing the short out by default and waiting until the CB was withing 5 yards of the ball when it was caught to throw vertical.
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Offline 32wedge

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #67 on: April 20, 2018, 04:03:58 PM »

Let's use 16 Pass from the UBSW as an example - both TEs running Seams. And let's say you're facing Cov 3.



If 3 defenders are outside the box playing pass coverage, I have no reason to pass the ball.  We are very comfortable running against 8 man fronts.  That's normal for us.  The 2 teams (GW Danville and Halifax County) bring 9, 10 and 11 up into the line and that gives us a lot of trouble.  We can burn them with 16 Pass once maybe even twice but not enough to compete. 

I intend to use more open formations to spread them out.  I also need to be able to get the ball out instantly from tight and spread formations.  Not a lot of passing, but enough to make them respect it.

We had 19 kids last season (7th and 8th graders/did not cut anyone).  The rec league that feeds us hasn't won a game since I've been there.  Our high school varsity has 6 wins from 2010 until now.  The only real good thing about it is they were desperate enough to let a little league coach from Tennessee come in take over their middle school team.

That GW Danville team had 90+ 8th graders try out for the team that played us.  They will add to their list of NFL Alumni next week when Tremaine and Terrell Edmunds get drafted.  We may never compete with that team but I am going to keep trying.

Not making excuses, just want to relate that QB coaching is not my highest priority.  I enjoyed watching the videos and learned a lot but I don't have the time to completely implement R4 and coach up a passing QB.  I will try and use as much of the info as is practical to better my 2 play quick passing game.



« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 04:08:25 PM by 32wedge »

Offline GP

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #68 on: April 20, 2018, 04:42:08 PM »
Wedge - my example was simply to show you how it works - would be the exact same against any 1 high look (eg the 10 man box you described which I assume means the corners are now in the box).

My point wasn't that you should always throw vs Cover 3 or that passing game must be your #1 priority. Just trying to illustrate some of the many ways "throw it to who I tell you" breaks down  and how R4 creates a simple process for your QB to make the right decision within your system.

Also, to beat better teams, you usually have to be at least proficient in throwing the ball and you should be able to do that against a 9 or 10 or 11 man box. R4 helps give you and your QB confidence in doing so.

As far as your comments re talent - in 2015, our semi-final opponent had two kids who are now rising Juniors each with multiple D1 offers (from Power 5 schools). One is the highest rated RB in the region - will be an ESPN 300 kid (Top 200 on 247 and rising - was JUST the top rated RB at a camp over another kid who is in the Top 150). Neither of them were even their best player! They had another RB who was the best kid in the whole league that year.

Conversely, not one kid from our team that year has a college offer on any level. On top of that, we lost our starting QB / best player for the year the prior week in practice and our starting RB went down the first play of that game & didn't return. We beat them 26-0 and had just recovered a sack fumble on their 10 with 3 mins to go when the zebras called the game.

Point being, don't get too caught up in or intimidated by your opponents' talent level. Competing w that team starts with KNOWING you can and will.
"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #69 on: April 20, 2018, 05:37:06 PM »

Not making excuses, just want to relate that QB coaching is not my highest priority.  I enjoyed watching the videos and learned a lot but I don't have the time to completely implement R4 and coach up a passing QB.  I will try and use as much of the info as is practical to better my 2 play quick passing game.

There is another way!

We are essentially a UBSW team. There. I said it. Our 5-wide empty package is something we essentially spend 10-15 minutes per day on, sometimes less, sometimes more. Lots of return for the investment and makes us very hard to prepare for. A standing rule for our offense is that if the defense calls a timeout, we come out in something completely different.

10 route tree that we work on at the beginning of the season as conditioning.
5 receivers, each with a different code word.
Route/Receiver called from the sideline.
"GAP ON FAN" pass protection.
Ball out of the QB's hand in 2 seconds.

And you still get to keep your "bread and butter", UBSW.
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Offline 32wedge

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2018, 05:51:45 PM »
There is another way!

We are essentially a UBSW team. There. I said it. Our 5-wide empty package is something we essentially spend 10-15 minutes per day on, sometimes less, sometimes more. Lots of return for the investment and makes us very hard to prepare for. A standing rule for our offense is that if the defense calls a timeout, we come out in something completely different.

10 route tree that we work on at the beginning of the season as conditioning.
5 receivers, each with a different code word.
Route/Receiver called from the sideline.
"GAP ON FAN" pass protection.
Ball out of the QB's hand in 2 seconds.

And you still get to keep your "bread and butter", UBSW.

That's what I am looking for!  Thanks.

Offline 32wedge

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2018, 05:58:18 PM »
Gumby and Mike,

Work is sending me out to Golden, Co for 2 weeks in June.  Any chance you guys could make time to talk shop with me.  I will spring for dinner/brews.

Offline GP

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #72 on: April 20, 2018, 06:39:09 PM »
Now I'm now even invited  :(
"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz

Offline 32wedge

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #73 on: April 20, 2018, 06:59:26 PM »
Now I'm now even invited  :(

You can come too. 

I thought about finding Forest Fenn's treasure while out there but I can make time to talk football.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Quick Game Concepts & Teaching
« Reply #74 on: April 20, 2018, 09:37:09 PM »
Gumby and Mike,

Work is sending me out to Golden, Co for 2 weeks in June.  Any chance you guys could make time to talk shop with me.  I will spring for dinner/brews.
Absolutely!
Mission Statement: To create a Football Family that our players and parents can't imagine not being a part of.