Author Topic: Covering trips in a 4/4 Defense  (Read 684 times)

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Offline Youthballee

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Covering trips in a 4/4 Defense
« on: October 30, 2018, 03:16:31 PM »
Here's what I like. Corners have X and Y (widest receivers) in man to man. Bump them at the LOS, take away anything inside.

OLB on Trips side will apex the next two slot receivers and stay in underneath flat coverage.

Safety has help over top if one of the two slots goes deep.

Weak side TE can NOT release. DE must take him off his route.

Risk is if all three trips go deep, your safety has to be a track star and make a play.

What say you?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 03:27:02 PM by Youthballee »

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Covering trips in a 4/4 Defense
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2018, 03:28:59 PM »
Use Extreme Caution with that. 

I know a ton of teams who will put their best receiver opposite the Trips and, if you shade that Safety over that much your CB is a dead man.   Just sayin. 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline ZACH

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Re: Covering trips in a 4/4 Defense
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2018, 03:35:38 PM »
Trips side
Post, seam, bannana, zipper/tunnel screen

Single wr side any route that wr breaks your corners ankles lol

I have no idea if you scouted,  if they are run heavy, or can even pass efficiently

Ide play this  more traditionally either your cover 1, 0,00 or quarters match is howd ide play it
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Offline blockandtackle

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Re: Covering trips in a 4/4 Defense
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2018, 03:55:19 PM »
Yeah, I would be careful with that.  I like manning up the WR on the weakside if they're hurting you to trips, but a lot of teams get into Trips to throw isolation routes to their best WR on the weakside because manning up on him is the most common adjustment.  This also has potential to screw you up to the run force side.

One simple way to play Trips is just to check Cov. 3 and go with 1/4, 1/4, 1/2 with your CB on the single receiver rolled back as the 1/2 player and your OLB cheated out onto the single receiver while the OLB on the strong side aligns 3 yards off and 1 yard inside #2 to the Trips, denies him an inside release, and plays the flat.

Or, if you're feeling feisty, you can just say "screw it, let's kill the QB!" and get into a Cov. 0 by flipping the weak OLB to take #2 to the Trips side, put your FS on #3, bring your regular OLB and the ILB to the trips side on a blitz to kill the QB if they're rolling him to the trips, as many will do.  If they're actually trying to drop back and throw, have your DBs just press the crap out of the WRs and blitz both ILBs and DTs through A and B gap.

If you want to get a little more complicated than that, but not that much, for youth I like a "dumbed down" version of TCU's "special" check.  On the weakside, it'll look just like what I described above.  On the snap, the OLB will "sink" with #1 vertical but keep his eyes on the flat and come up if something shows.  CB just spot drops on the hash and reads the QB's eyes, getting as deep as the deepest receiver from the MOF to the near sideline.

To the Trips, set your DT into A gap (I'll explain why in a minute), then you cheat the FS to the hash over there to play the deep 1/2.  Man the CB up on #1 to the Trips, because few QBs even in HS or college will even want to try to make that long throw to him.  Have the OLB line like described above.

So that leaves #3...

You've already got the FS playing the deep 1/2 over there, so theoretically either S can get to the MOF to cover any deep route #3 may run.  Now, remember how I said to set your DT into A gap as a 2/2i/1 tech?  That's so the ILB to the Trips side can cheat over a little into a 40 or even a 50 tech over the T and still play B gap inside the DE, but be in better position to wall off #3 and not allow him an inside release.  Ideally, you're also teaching your DE to play in a 6 tech when he sees a TE and play B gap, while you're spilling everything to the OLBs (makes adjusting to Trey sets a breeze).

Now, on the snap here, they'll check their usual run/pass keys.  If it's pass, your FS will spot drop deep to the hash and read the QB's eyes.  The CB on the strong side is matched up man-to-man on #1.  The strong OLB is denying #2 his inside release and playing the same technique as the OLB on the other side: he's "sinking" with #2 until something shows in the flat (could be #3, could be a RB, could even be the WR from the other side of the field), which he'll take.  Your ILB is also going to wall off #3 so he can't release inside and will run down the field with him with eyes in his zone for something crossing the middle.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 04:00:36 PM by blockandtackle »

Offline Youthballee

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Re: Covering trips in a 4/4 Defense
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2018, 12:42:18 PM »
Use Extreme Caution with that. 

I know a ton of teams who will put their best receiver opposite the Trips and, if you shade that Safety over that much your CB is a dead man.   Just sayin.

Understood. The drawing probably not properly to scale. Safety probably wouldn't be that far over. And we'd probably put our better corner in the iso situation.

In our age group, 10-11, deep passes are rare. One team has a QB that can really do it. They're out of the playoffs.

The example I give is in contrast to what some other coaches in our program want to do against trips. They want the two corners manned up on the 1's on both sides. On the trips side, they want the safety manned up on the 2, and the OLB manned up on the 3. Safety still playing 10-15 yards off the ball.

To me, that's just wrong. No help over the top, and that 2 in the trips set can run underneath routes all day with his man coverage playing 10-15 yards off the ball (maybe more depending on opponent).

I like my idea better. I've run it, never been burned. Looking for a better way, or at least agree/disagree that my way is better than what the other coaches want.   
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 01:07:05 PM by Youthballee »

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Covering trips in a 4/4 Defense
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2018, 01:02:04 PM »
Not sure anyone 15 yards off the ball is doing anything but playing The Out Field.  The real question is do you have 4 kids capable of playing man? 

To my mind, most youth teams will run Spread to get  the defense outside the Box and Run.  The mantra regarding  the box is  6 or less Run, 7 or more Pass.  Some are willing to run with 7.  Even with that in mind, I would play the Trips as if they were going to do nothing but Screens Bubble, Tunnel and Short passes Hitch, Slants, Speed Outs etc.  Honestly I would probably Zone the Trips side.

:)


   
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Offline Youthballee

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Re: Covering trips in a 4/4 Defense
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2018, 01:53:21 PM »
Not sure anyone 15 yards off the ball is doing anything but playing The Out Field.  The real question is do you have 4 kids capable of playing man? 

To my mind, most youth teams will run Spread to get  the defense outside the Box and Run.  The mantra regarding  the box is  6 or less Run, 7 or more Pass.  Some are willing to run with 7.  Even with that in mind, I would play the Trips as if they were going to do nothing but Screens Bubble, Tunnel and Short passes Hitch, Slants, Speed Outs etc.  Honestly I would probably Zone the Trips side.

:)


 

When we think a team is a real threat to pass, we go cover 2. This is a run first team we're playing at this point. They'll throw 4-5 times a game. Their QB is more of a running threat than passing threat, but throws enough that we have to respect it. That's why we want to stay 4/4. Sometimes they'll go double tight and we might bring an LB up to get us into a 5/3.

Offline blockandtackle

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Re: Covering trips in a 4/4 Defense
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2018, 03:42:26 PM »
When we think a team is a real threat to pass, we go cover 2. This is a run first team we're playing at this point. They'll throw 4-5 times a game. Their QB is more of a running threat than passing threat, but throws enough that we have to respect it. That's why we want to stay 4/4. Sometimes they'll go double tight and we might bring an LB up to get us into a 5/3.

I'd be inclined to just go Cov. 0 against that, pack the box, and get after the QB.  4-5 times a game isn't much if you're getting a decent press at the line to disrupt timing on the quick stuff.

We were a base 4-2-5/4-4, but we had a nice 4-3 pressure package at my last school that we loved against spread-to-run teams who didn't throw well or often.  Basically we'd take our SS/SOLB, FS, and CBs and man them up up on the receivers in press coverage.  DEs would be in heavy 5s.

The other 3 LBs would adjust so we'd have the WOLB and SILB 3X3 almost like standup DEs, DTs in 2is (I'd rather run 2s, personally) and the WILB would align like a MLB on the C.

From here, we'd mostly slant the DL and bring a LB off the edge opposite the slant.  The MLB would simply fill the open A gap or blitz it.  Sometimes we might play games to pinch the DT into A gap and loop the OLB through B gap.

It was basically a very simple "youth-like" Pro 4-3 and it worked beautifully at the large HS level.  It forced teams to have to beat us by throwing quick passes because the box was packed to stop the run, they couldn't sprint out to trips because of the OLB firing against the run, and they couldn't dropback and throw deep because there just wasn't time.

This defense was originally designed to stop a spread team with a D1 QB who had 1500 yards rushing his Soph-Senior years and went on to start for Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl (sadly, that was after a couple of major knee injuries so he never got to live up to his potential) and it shut him down except for a few slants.