Author Topic: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)  (Read 1634 times)

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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2018, 07:21:10 PM »
Chris:

I'm just going to say it again and again.  If your goiing Spread and Zone, Seek out Joe C (MH Coach) read his material.  Look for Michael's early stuff in Zone Blocking (before he became even more cynical :P) .  I'll add JerryCampbell.  All good stuff.

jmho
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline TheRealCBlakely

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Re: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2018, 07:29:05 PM »
Chris:

I'm just going to say it again and again.  If your goiing Spread and Zone, Seek out Joe C (MH Coach) read his material.  Look for Michael's early stuff in Zone Blocking (before he became even more cynical :P) .  I'll add JerryCampbell.  All good stuff.

jmho

I’ve been looking through some of it and I’ll reach out.

— Chris

Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2018, 08:56:52 PM »
For a lot of these kids it will be their third year with us and we want to make the transition as easy as possible.

For the coaches or the players?

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2018, 10:22:23 PM »
For the coaches or the players?

--Dave

Both!  LOL 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2018, 10:48:44 AM »
I’ll take a look at it and see if it’s somethi plausible for our team.

Chris, it's not about whether it's something plausible for your team.  It's whether it works for you, as a coach.  Your personnel doesn't determine scheme.  Your personnel determines who and what you feature within a particular scheme.  If I had a great passer (and I have.  The starting QB at Rice University played 2 years for me), and we still ran the Double Wing.  He threw more TDs than any DW QB I've coached.  But we still ran (and won with) the Double Wing. 

Don't make the mistake of trying to decide upon an entire scheme based on your personnel.  Personnel changes.  What happens next season when you have a different group of players?  Are you going to go back to square one and start learning a new offense for that group?  If so, it's doubtful that you will ever become great at what you do because you are starting over based on personnel.  And when will you know what kind of personnel you are getting?  A month before the season?  A couple of weeks?  Can you learn a different offense in that amount of time and become proficient at teaching it?

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline davecisar

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Re: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)
« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2018, 05:13:47 PM »
I pretty much can do what I want on offense, the HC doesn’t care. Or says he doesn’t care. I was told by a few coaches that he was complaining about some of the things I called this year but it is what it is.

We ran offense for about half the practice most days. We worked on techniques (snaps, handoffs, etc).

Personnel wise, he says who he wants and where he wants them and I just have to make it work. I’ve already decided that I’m going to have the say in that department next season.

—Chris
The first half of practice backs fundamentals should include blocking and ball protection
Snaps and handoffs can be combined in those drills
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline Seabass

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Re: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2018, 01:40:43 PM »
Oh man....I think we were all where you are at some point. You will figure this out because it appears that you want to and you are accepting some coaching.

As other's have said, you need to find a blocking scheme. If you a guy who intends to coach for a long time then learning a zone scheme would be hugely beneficial to you. I had zone shoved down my throat by an organization that I was coaching for. At first I hated it but it turned out to be the best thing I could have done for my coaching career.

I live on the other side of the state from where you are but feel free to reach out and I will help you where I can.

Offline GP

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Re: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2018, 01:42:41 PM »
Don't make the mistake of trying to decide upon an entire scheme based on your personnel.  Personnel changes.  What happens next season when you have a different group of players? 

Forget next season, what about week to week? Just finished our fourth season running Joe's (MHCoach) offense - each year we have been able to overcome injuries & other personnel issues to score 30+ ppg. In 3 of the 4 seasons we have had our QB1 go down for at least a month (if running Spread, better have QB2 ready).

This year, our top two players (QB & RB) each missed a month of the season. Are you prepared for that?

So many think learning an offense means reading a playbook & white-boarding. Running an offense = calling plays. These are the same guys who you hear angry & frustrated yelling at their kids to "BLOCK SOMEBODY!" when they don't understand why their O is breaking down.

To really run an offense, you not only have to know what everyone is supposed to do on each play but what typically goes wrong (and that can vary by situation) and why. Then you need to know how to fix it efficiently. Need to have answers for every front / stunt / blitz / coverage you may see. Answers for personnel issues (yours and theirs). Weather. Basically everything you can think of and other things you won't think of until it hurts you (another reason running a system for years works - you build on that experience).

So tell me have you ever really...really, really ever run an offense?  ;D
"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz

Offline CHARLIEDONTSURF

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Re: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2018, 10:48:25 PM »
Chris, it's not about whether it's something plausible for your team.  It's whether it works for you, as a coach.  Your personnel doesn't determine scheme.  Your personnel determines who and what you feature within a particular scheme.  If I had a great passer (and I have.  The starting QB at Rice University played 2 years for me), and we still ran the Double Wing.  He threw more TDs than any DW QB I've coached.  But we still ran (and won with) the Double Wing. 

Don't make the mistake of trying to decide upon an entire scheme based on your personnel.  Personnel changes.  What happens next season when you have a different group of players?  Are you going to go back to square one and start learning a new offense for that group?  If so, it's doubtful that you will ever become great at what you do because you are starting over based on personnel.  And when will you know what kind of personnel you are getting?  A month before the season?  A couple of weeks?  Can you learn a different offense in that amount of time and become proficient at teaching it?

--Dave

I agree and disagree.  No small private schools are running wing-T because they want to.  They're running it because they have to. 

I've run a system for years and generally agree with the spirit of your point.  Yes, week 1 most seasons is really week 18 because I got 80% of my kids back.  And, yes, it's nicer.  In fact, I wish I'd put more emphasis on continuity earlier in my coaching career.

But if I've got the pieces to run quick game and make opponents defend a full field for two years, well, I've never had a problem with sudden discontinuity.  Not in youth football, anyway, and never with respect to scheme.  I get a lot out of kids in one season, including one-and-done kids that I lose to school.  Continuity's biggest value to me is hardness. We roll every team inside of 50 miles and then, like a bunch of YMCA black belts who've never been in any real fights, our boys get to regionals and --if it's their first time-- someone whips their ass.  Not schematically.  Physically and spiritually.  It's hard to simulate those things, so the next year those kids all come back hard, especially my linemen.  And pouring that concrete has always mattered more than scheme. 

With respect, the example of the Rice QB is a non-sequitur.  I'm sure Graham Harrell would've broken every school record at Air Force had he run the flexbone there, too.  But his success in that system would be irrelevant to whether he was maximized by running the bone those 4 years (as opposed to, say, running Air Raid, which he did under Leach).  Your mileage may vary, but I've seen even bad year 1 air raid teams slay dragons with misfits.

There's a reason NFL defenses of the 1980's don't work in 2018.  Even 46 defenses --which cover most of the roulette wheel in youth football-- are only dominant because they're strong against what most youth teams can execute and weak against what they can't.  It's hard to prepare for --or even simulate-- an offense that can spin 0's and 00's on you at will.  And, as the coach, throttling my system up or down the following season is never an issue.  That said, I don't run any three-card monty, and so I say that with full respect of how much nuance goes into maximizing systems like DW, UBSW, etc.

As some coach said: there's what you want to do, there's what you can do, and then there's what you can practice.  It's a reduction, and the code breaks for me if you invert the first and second axioms, where "What you want to do" is a smaller funnel than "What you can do."  But that's just me.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 11:06:12 PM by CHARLEYDONTSURF »

Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)
« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2018, 11:26:29 PM »
No small private schools are running wing-T because they want to.  They're running it because they have to. 

--That's a blanket statement.  And I've been a header at 1A (small school) and 4A (large school) and I ran the Double Wing at both because it was what I wanted to run.

I've run a system for years and generally agree with the spirit of your point.

--I'm not sure you do.

But if I've got the pieces to run quick game and make opponents defend a full field for two years, well, I've never had a problem with sudden discontinuity.  Not in youth football, anyway, and never with respect to scheme.  I get a lot out of kids in one season, including one-and-done kids that I lose to school.  Continuity's biggest value to me is hardness.

--The OP's statement was about "waiting to see" his personnel before deciding on a scheme.  Personally, I don't believe most youth coaches can wait until the season starts to choose an offense because most youth coaches can't learn a new offense in a week or two, and be proficient at teaching it.  High school coaches can't afford to do it because with year-round football practice, waiting until they see the "new crop" of players and then changing a scheme you've been working on for months during the off-season makes no sense.  There aren't too many coaches at any level that are so proficient offensively, that they can just dial up a new scheme each year.  Becoming proficient at an offense takes years of work.  On the other hand, anyone can just run a new offense by looking at a playbook and holding it up in front of their players.

And pouring that concrete has always mattered more than scheme. 

--I agree with you here.  Especially in youth ball.  But again, the uninitiated seem to think they can wait until the season is practically starting to learn an offense and quite frankly we're not even sure if this coach has ever coached an offense with a blocking scheme, so he's already way behind.  Waiting until players arrive just puts him further behind.

With respect, the example of the Rice QB is a non-sequitur.  I'm sure Graham Harrell would've broken every school record at Air Force had he run the flexbone there, too.  But his success in that system would be irrelevant to whether he was maximized by running the bone those 4 years (as opposed to, say, running Air Raid, which he did under Leach).

--My point was that whether I've had a D1 college QB, or a kid who never played sports beyond high school, it didn't change our scheme.  It only changed what we featured within our scheme.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline CHARLIEDONTSURF

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Re: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2018, 12:56:25 AM »
No small private schools are running wing-T because they want to.  They're running it because they have to. 

--That's a blanket statement.  And I've been a header at 1A (small school) and 4A (large school) and I ran the Double Wing at both because it was what I wanted to run.

Ted Kaczynski had a 170 IQ and wanted to live in shed and wipe his ass with leaves.  He was, of course free to do it, but that didn't mean living in a house with double-ply and microwave wasn't a better idea. :)

Being sarcastic, of course.  Yes, I'm generalizing, but what I'm saying is fairly uncontroversial: "If you could, you would."  Are you saying I can't generalize, but you can use an exception to prove the rule?  Again, stating something obvious.  If you or anyone else prefers a given system, or if you're more confident you'll get predictable results from System X vs System Y, hey, that's your bag.  Have at it.  But it's irrelevant to the fact that:

-- If you could do X
-- And doing X is better than Y
-- Most people would do X, not Y

That's all I'm saying.


--The OP's statement was about "waiting to see" his personnel before deciding on a scheme.  Personally, I don't believe most youth coaches can wait until the season starts to choose an offense because most youth coaches can't learn a new offense in a week or two, and be proficient at teaching it.  High school coaches can't afford to do it because with year-round football practice, waiting until they see the "new crop" of players and then changing a scheme you've been working on for months during the off-season makes no sense.  There aren't too many coaches at any level that are so proficient offensively, that they can just dial up a new scheme each year.  Becoming proficient at an offense takes years of work.  On the other hand, anyone can just run a new offense by looking at a playbook and holding it up in front of their players.

I'll stipulate.  I missed the "waiting to see" part when reading the thread and would wholeheartedly agree with you and take back my post about throttling schemes.  My season preparation starts in December and by January we're already working Sevens to get ready for the next year.  I've coached two seasons in my career at the 11th hour (where Day 1 was almost literally "Hi, my name is...") and I was already months behind.

Cheers.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2018 Enumclaw Jr. Hornets (Mighty Mites)
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2018, 07:26:14 AM »
Ted Kaczynski had a 170 IQ and wanted to live in shed and wipe his ass with leaves.  He was, of course free to do it, but that didn't mean living in a house with double-ply and microwave wasn't a better idea. :)

--What I do with leaves is my business.  ;)

-- If you could do X
-- And doing X is better than Y
-- Most people would do X, not Y

--It seems to me that you're arguing that one scheme is better than another.  I don't think there is a superior scheme.  There are however, superior ways to coach any scheme and be vastly successful.

I'll stipulate.  I missed the "waiting to see" part when reading the thread and would wholeheartedly agree with you and take back my post about throttling schemes.  My season preparation starts in December and by January we're already working Sevens to get ready for the next year.  I've coached two seasons in my career at the 11th hour (where Day 1 was almost literally "Hi, my name is...") and I was already months behind.

--When I arrived at EWHS in 2017, I was very late to the dance.  We arrived in the Spring and (because of different rules at that time) only got a Spring practice with them before school was out.  All of the players were new to me, and they to our scheme.  However, we were able to get up to speed and had a successful season.  But that's because I already knew the offense.  I wasn't going to wait until I could see what kind of athletes we had and then determine a scheme.  Finding out what athletes I had only determined how I use them.  Perhaps you're well versed in enough schemes that you can pick and choose a scheme at the last minute and still be proficient at it.  I ran Spread in 2016 and was successful with it but that wasn't because I knew the offense (I didn't).  It had more to do with what you said earlier ("And pouring that concrete has always mattered more than scheme.")  But most coaches can't switch offenses annually and still be proficient from one to the other.  And I'm willing to bet that while you put in new concepts from year to year based on your personnel, that you're still running things from a shell that's familiar from what you've taught year to year.  I can't imagine that you're willing to go from Run & Shoot to Flexbone to Spread to Wing Option to Fly Sweep, etc.  Who do you think you are?  Mahonz?  ;) But I'm sure that you can absorb concepts from each of these schemes and newly install them to your base shell.  Again, my response was to a youth coach who is probably running an offense without a blocking scheme.  The old "I'll wait to see what players I have before deciding on an offense" is entirely different (and irrational) than saying "I'll wait to see what players I have before deciding which concepts to install, but I already have a base offense."

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope