Author Topic: Position-less Defense  (Read 412 times)

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Offline StormCoach

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Position-less Defense
« on: March 21, 2019, 08:17:59 AM »
Does anyone have any more info on the position-less defense?  It's sparked my interest from it from reading about it. 

https://matchquarters.com/
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Position-less Defense
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2019, 08:54:44 AM »
Does anyone have any more info on the position-less defense?  It's sparked my interest from it from reading about it. 

https://matchquarters.com/
I don't, but I hope your interest in it is in handicapping varsity games, not coaching 12Us!

Offline blockandtackle

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Re: Position-less Defense
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2019, 11:13:23 AM »
Does anyone have any more info on the position-less defense?  It's sparked my interest from it from reading about it. 

https://matchquarters.com/

I think this is a bit of a misnomer, as I've dug into it.

I'm not an expert, but the way most teams use it, it usually amounts to a Quarters based pattern-matching coverage on the backend with a 3 down front playing what's basically a 3-3 nickel package, but the LBs typically aren't stacked behind the DL.  It's a solution to defend spread offenses to get more speed on the field and defend sophisticated passing games and RPO/QB read games on the ground.

The "positionless" aspect comes from the way the blitzes and coverages are taught.  I've not been able to find as much info as I'd like, but basically they have like 5-6 blitz "concepts" they recycle each week and they can use tags to designate who is blitzing and who's in coverage to replace the blitzer.  It looks like most of these teams teach the blitzes as half field concepts similar to the way passing teams will teach passing concepts--they know they need to get a player to point A, a player to point B, and a player to point C, but who is doing what may change depending on a keyword or where they're lined up.

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Position-less Defense
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2019, 01:53:39 PM »
Just putting this out there for consumption.

There is so much information available regarding schemes and X's and O's out there. A lot is quite valid, some, not so much.  Having the information and educating oneself is a great thing.  However, for many of us JFL coaches in general, there are just some things we simply cannot apply.   Many factors effect this.  Time, Staff (size and knowledge), Attendance etc

However, beyond our capacity as a coach to TEACH them, our first objective is to understand how our Jimmy's and Joe's fit in with the intended X's and O's.  Top Down engineering (X's and O's) rarely works as efficiently as Ground Up (Jimmy's and Joe's).  Feed them as much as they can handle collectively, then see how or where your "Studs" can go further still. 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline blockandtackle

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Re: Position-less Defense
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2019, 04:19:25 PM »
I'm not sure why people are giving the OP flack for asking the question.  It's not like he said he wanted to run the Iowa St. defense with 12u.

I don't know this stuff well enough to explain it, let enough coach it, but if OP can find some good sources and figure out a way to strip that down and teach it to 12u, more power to him.

The more I think about a "positionless" 12u defense, the more I assume you'd just be in man coverage running something like a GAM or 2LD with containing DEs and an emphasis on pursuit and individual matchups, which might not be a bad approach with young kids.

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Position-less Defense
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2019, 05:13:54 PM »
I wasn't intending to give "Flack".

Information is Great. Knowledge makes us all better!  In fact, I believe I said that.  I was merely attempting to point out a potential Pitfalls based on some of my own experiences.  I had to skin my knees a few times....   :D

     
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Position-less Defense
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 05:49:34 PM »
The more I think about a "positionless" 12u defense, the more I assume you'd just be in man coverage running something like a GAM or 2LD with containing DEs and an emphasis on pursuit and individual matchups, which might not be a bad approach with young kids.

That's very close to the way we did things with our defensive approach, our Invisible Offense concepts, going with the snap, playing on the opponent's side of the LOS, our outside-to-in contain and an emphasis on 11-to-1 pursuit.  Regardless of "position," the positions were pretty much interchangeable as their responsibilities were mostly the same.  We weren't trying to copy a particular defensive scheme but install a particular mindset and philosophy.

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Online gumby_in_co

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Re: Position-less Defense
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2019, 10:32:38 AM »
That's very close to the way we did things with our defensive approach, our Invisible Offense concepts, going with the snap, playing on the opponent's side of the LOS, our outside-to-in contain and an emphasis on 11-to-1 pursuit.  Regardless of "position," the positions were pretty much interchangeable as their responsibilities were mostly the same.  We weren't trying to copy a particular defensive scheme but install a particular mindset and philosophy.

--Dave

I borrowed liberally from your "invisible offense" philosophy for our 33 Amoeba. The other day, I told them, "I know this sounds dumb, but I can't think of a clever way to say, 'Don't get blocked'."

I also had to question defensive dogma at ever turn. "Control the line of scrimmage?" No. Let's control the ball carrier. "Gap control?". No gap ever scored a TD or gained a single yard . . . ever.

So instead, I'm trying to develop 11 snarling, fire breathing monsters who attack with the ball, read while attacking and relentlessly pursue the ball. Due to popular demand from the players, we decided that our base look is a zero front. Everyone is at least 4 yards off the ball.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Position-less Defense
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2019, 10:45:08 AM »
Due to popular demand from the players, we decided that our base look is a zero front. Everyone is at least 4 yards off the ball.

And its very strange but seems to be working well. Very difficult to block.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Position-less Defense
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2019, 11:16:06 AM »
And its very strange but seems to be working well. Very difficult to block.

How 'bout that.

15+ years ago, we had a pre-season scrimmage against a top team.  (They would end up undefeated that year.)  We had a great deal of success in the scrimmage and they weren't able to score.  One of their coaches came to me afterwards and asked me "What defense are you running? I haven't seen that before."  I really had no idea what to tell him or even how to respond because I knew it wasn't something I'd gotten out of a book or from another coach or team.  We simply knew what we wanted to be good at, and we relentlessly practiced those fundamentals.  (Don't get blocked, don't get beaten by a Sweep, how to defend a ball in the air, how to cause & recover a fumble, etc.)  Because I was a stickler (i.e., "crazed maniac") about those fundamentals and details, we were able to be successful, regardless of what another offense tried to do.  Our success with this approach taught me to be more concerned with "executing our defense" as opposed to adjusting to an offense.  Instead of worrying about what an opponent runs, we are diligent about making sure we operate and execute our fundamentals.  This works against any offense.

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« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 11:19:37 AM by CoachDP »
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Position-less Defense
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2019, 11:17:11 AM »
I also had to question defensive dogma at ever turn.

Yes.  This ^.  Thank you.

Once you do that, you have truly freed yourself to creating something unstoppable.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
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Offline ZACH

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Re: Position-less Defense
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2019, 11:52:37 AM »

 No gap ever scored a TD or gained a single yard . . . ever.


No gap ever tackled a ball carrier either...
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