Author Topic: DC Run & Shoot Download  (Read 9538 times)

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Offline Michael

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2014, 02:20:42 PM »
Well if my two LB can't get the QB when he runs outside, we are, as they say, cooked (or something else that rimes with this).

If two of my most athletic players unblocked can't catch the QB 2 on 1, it doesn't matter what offense they play.

You mean the LBs in the A-gaps?
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Offline Michael

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2014, 02:21:47 PM »
cooked (or something else that rimes with this).

That must be a hell of an accent, by the way.

:)
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Offline Luc

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2014, 02:23:25 PM »
You mean the LBs in the A-gaps?
Yop. Those guys that end up in the piles ;)

Luc
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Offline DumCoach

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2014, 02:24:57 PM »
OK, I'll have a shot at this (an leave myself wide open for a counter strike!  :)

First thing, this is not a shot at wide gaps. It is just me trying to figure out how I would attack this particular O if I had one game of scouting film, and not 3 months to design a defense just to stop this O.

Also, I won't have to face Clark or his team of 40 pounds dare devils, but I might just have to face a coach in my league who will have read this over a week-end and thought they were going to destroy us all. Bring it on, I say.

First thing, the following might not apply to everyone else, but I went over a year worth of games in my league (10-11), and an unblocked End or OLB takes 2.2 to 2.4 seconds to get 5 yards behind the center. UNBLOCKED == key word.

This is why I have devised that my 3 steps throwing game will have to send the ball flying in 2 seconds top. And I have seen on grass my QBs doing just that (taking the snap, backing up 3 steps, and getting rid of the ball in 2 secs).

Using the Pythagorean theorem, you can calculate that a player coming unblocked through the A-gap (in my league) would take around 1.5 second to get to the spot where the QB will try to send the ball from.

Now here is how I would set up to attack this O (and I am 100% with Mahonz Junior on this one).

If you can't manage a plan to get at least one unblocked rusher in the A gaps vs this O, you should go coach something else.

I can get TWO unblocked rusher, one in each A gap ON EVERY PLAY. And still I will have 6 more guys to put on the field. The trick is simple. I don't block the Tackles. Why should I?

They aren't eligible, so they can't run or catch a pass, and the only dude who can run out of the backfield with the ball is the QB, and he has to wait for the snap 4 yards back, and THEN start running. At that point he will have two of my best athletes running towards him full speed and having a great angle to stop him wherever he may wish to go.

I would put a Nose on the Center so he can't help a "TWO call". I would align two DTs in a 1 tech with the sole purpose in life to keep those Guards buzzy.  Now they too have a great angle to do their job.

I would align two ILB in the A gaps and tell them that their only purpose in life is to make the QB miserable. Very miserable.

Now that I have two of my best athletes hitting any spot the QB can reach in 1.5 seconds, all I have to worry about are those two TEs who won't block. Ever.

At this point, I still have 6 players to put on the field, so I might as well take 3 and put them in men to men with the 3 receivers that are not TEs, they just have to cover for 2.5 seconds (1.5 + 1 second for the ball to get there).

I still have 3 players, so I can align 2 OLB AT THE EXACT SPOT where the TEs go when the ILB are blitzing. I might also put them in front of the TEs and jam them all the way to Texas, that would work too because those TEs are not chosen for their ability to block, and we are talking about my OLBs, not bad athletes by any standard.

Now that the QB has nowhere to go, and no time to do a pass in the three deep zones, and I have every other player covered and accounted for maximum 2.5 seconds, I STILL have an extra player that I can put at FS to maybe get a shot at tackling either the QB who somehow managed to beat 2 LBs (the one on the side he is running to and the OLB that is sitting waiting for the TE that WON'T BLOCK HIM.

I'm sure there are some problems with this, but I'll take the odds of not playing against Kaepernick (not going to happen in my league). After a few plays with two little monsters rushing him into the ground, that 11 years old QB will be looking for a nice safe spot on the bench, very happy that his knee 'hurts'.

OK, hunting season is open, I have the big target on my back, let's have fun with this Sunday afternoon :)

Luc

This is a simple math problem and everything I do is math based:

"A two foot round ball will not fit through a 1.5 foot hole."

Luc is about to let me take out five defenders with three blockers.


Look at the line split rules.  The guards take a "Triple split" and Tackles a "Double" split.  A triple split is equal to 1,5x the width of a player.  A double split is equal to one player width.  To prove this to yourself,  put your shoulder/foot to a wall, feet shoulder width apart.  Now move the wall side foot to the outside foot, and the outside foot outside again to shoulder width again.  Repeat three times.

You are not three times your body width away from the wall.  You are 1.5.  Checks the OG's in my pictures. Their splits are 1.5 players.  Check the phots of the OT's.  They are split 1.0 players.

Luc is going to try and fit two defenders through a hole 1.5 players wide.  When those two defenders line up in the gap, the outside one will be splitting the feet of the OG. One half of the defender can't fit in the gap. 

Now!  Consider the recess.  The Center will hold the ball out as far as he can.  That should be about two feet in front of his toes.  The line will recess about an extra foot behind the center.  Thus, their feet are about 3 feet behind the ball.  Remember!  It's not where their heads are.  Its where their FEET ARE. 

The same applies for the defense.  It isn't where their heads are.  It's where there FEET are.  Most three point defenders will have their feet almost two off the ball.  If so (And we're doing rough math), the distance from the defender's feet to the OG's feet is 5 feet.  So your typical "A" gap defender has to go 5 feet FORWARD to get as DEEP as the Guard.  The Guard could be 5 feet from the center and the distance for them to go is the same. 

5 feet is a 60" split.  Using 1.5X splits, my OG would have to be 40 INCHES WIDE to end up in a 5 foot split.  The greater likelihood is that he's only half that wide and he's using a 30 inch split. 

So I win versus Luc TWICE.  He lost first because he tried to fit two players through a 1.5 player wide hole.  He lost again because my guy only had to go 30 inches to his guy's 60 inches.

So here's what happens:


            DTLBNNLBDT
   LT....LG.....CC......RG....RT

The LT/RT will, count, block the DT defenders because LG and RG will pull towards the center to block LB's (by count) and out of their way.  The OT's use only a single split, placing them about 30 inches from the DT's who are 5 feet (60") away from the contact.  Easy block for an OT who knocks him inside towards his own LB.  Meanwhile the OG's only have to pull one half the width of the DT to make contact with the LB inside him who has way further than that to go.  This is an even easier block that the OT has and all four of my guys can legally clip in the FBZ.   

You need to make certain your linemen use even toed stances (equal pulling either way) and do not stand your linemen up (Illegal to recess standing linemen.). 
       
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Offline Luc

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2014, 02:25:14 PM »
That must be a hell of an accent, by the way.
:)
Man, you wouldn't believe ;)

The rules for rimes are VERY different in English and French, and that's something that I have never fully understood (the diffs).

Oh well, I can still follow the tune.

Luc
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Offline Jburk

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2014, 02:25:56 PM »
When we went to large splits of about 24", I would see coaches in our scrimmages and games try and adjust by "bringing the heat" up the middle on us. I loved that. We would run lead stretch, where the QB would simply catch the ball and run stretch. Was a very good adjustment to middle blitzes for us. Our QB was athletic, and we would make them pay most of the time. It was at times amusing watching the frustration of the other coaches when their heat couldn't stop the play, and they'd be forced out of what they thought would be a slam dunk answer to our large splits.
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Offline Michael

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2014, 02:26:04 PM »
Yop. Those guys that end up in the piles ;)

Luc

Yeah, I'm OK with those.
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Offline Michael

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2014, 02:31:10 PM »
When we went to large splits of about 24", I would see coaches in our scrimmages and games try and adjust by "bringing the heat" up the middle on us. I loved that. We would run lead stretch, where the QB would simply catch the ball and run stretch. Was a very good adjustment to middle blitzes for us. Our QB was athletic, and we would make them pay most of the time. It was at times amusing watching the frustration of the other coaches when their heat couldn't stop the play, and they'd be forced out of what they thought would be a slam dunk answer to our large splits.

Yeah, we continually heard the opposing coaches yelling two things at their guys.

1) "Get in there!"

2) "Stop the arm tackles."

They always seemed to be shocked their kids could get into the backfield so rarely.

And if they hadn't had arm tackles they wouldn't have had very many tackles at all.  The arm tackles were a result of all the space the defenders were trying to cover.
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Offline Luc

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #53 on: May 25, 2014, 02:48:00 PM »
Yeah, I'm OK with those.
Man, you have to teach me how you do that :)
Luc
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Offline Michael

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2014, 02:50:15 PM »
Man, you have to teach me how you do that :)
Luc

No, I don't.

:)

But I might.
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Offline Luc

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #55 on: May 25, 2014, 03:07:30 PM »
This is a simple math problem and everything I do is math based:
"A two foot round ball will not fit through a 1.5 foot hole."
Luc is about to let me take out five defenders with three blockers.
Well, I asked for it ;)
Quote
Look at the line split rules.  The guards take a "Triple split" and Tackles a "Double" split.  A triple split is equal to 1,5x the width of a player.  A double split is equal to one player width.  To prove this to yourself,  put your shoulder/foot to a wall, feet shoulder width apart.  Now move the wall side foot to the outside foot, and the outside foot outside again to shoulder width again.  Repeat three times.

You are not three times your body width away from the wall.  You are 1.5.  Checks the OG's in my pictures. Their splits are 1.5 players.  Check the phots of the OT's.  They are split 1.0 players.

Luc is going to try and fit two defenders through a hole 1.5 players wide.  When those two defenders line up in the gap, the outside one will be splitting the feet of the OG. One half of the defender can't fit in the gap. 
Yop, that's what I calculated also.

18" per player. So the gap is 27". But I'm only trying to fit 1.5 players in
1.5 player wide.

The DT is using a 1 tech. What I mean is that half is body in INSIDE the Guard, and half in the gap. He also has leverage on the Guard (he is inside and trying to keep the Guard from closing the A gap).

If the center favors one of the two A gaps, he might close one, but he is making the other wider. That might be a good idea because then only one LB gets into the backfield, and he can run the other way.
Quote
Now!  Consider the recess.  The Center will hold the ball out as far as he can.  That should be about two feet in front of his toes.  The line will recess about an extra foot behind the center.  Thus, their feet are about 3 feet behind the ball.  Remember!  It's not where their heads are.  Its where their FEET ARE. 
GREAT POINT.

Most of the rest I agree with.

Just trying to make the afternoon more fun ;)

Luc
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 03:09:08 PM by Luc »
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Offline belebuch

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #56 on: May 25, 2014, 03:29:15 PM »
Youre doing a great job!! :)

Offline Dimson

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2014, 04:51:10 PM »
I can't wait to try this O. So much potential.

Offline joshv155

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2014, 05:09:30 PM »
Im not even 1/2 way through the manual but based on putting two defenders in A like Luc has proposed why not put your fastest back at QB, G gets in the DT's way, who is in a 1 tech, while going to the LB. Center blocks to whatever the playside is called (QB can call that based on who he sees lining up where and attack the weaker player) and gets the LB.

Tackle to playside is going to get the 1 tech IF he decides to go on the outside of the G....then just have QB run towards B/C gap and pick a hole like clark described to hit.

From what I am reading Luc is expecting the QB to stay in one spot and the LB's get him where he catches the snap but he will be on the move and I doubt the playside LB gets in untouched. Backside maybe without the center to help but QB is running away from him and towards the LOS while LB is going full speed in the opposite direction to start because he will be aiming for the QB's starting point.....picking one way or the other wont work because he is wrong 50% of the time.

Just thinking about this in my head and based of the diagrams.

It took me 3 tries to pass the first college algebra class I took.....so all this math business does me no good.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: DC Run & Shoot Download
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2014, 05:22:34 PM »
Im not even 1/2 way through the manual but based on putting two defenders in A like Luc has proposed why not put your fastest back at QB, G gets in the DT's way, who is in a 1 tech, while going to the LB. Center blocks to whatever the playside is called (QB can call that based on who he sees lining up where and attack the weaker player) and gets the LB.

Tackle to playside is going to get the 1 tech IF he decides to go on the outside of the G....then just have QB run towards B/C gap and pick a hole like clark described to hit.

From what I am reading Luc is expecting the QB to stay in one spot and the LB's get him where he catches the snap but he will be on the move and I doubt the playside LB gets in untouched. Backside maybe without the center to help but QB is running away from him and towards the LOS while LB is going full speed in the opposite direction to start because he will be aiming for the QB's starting point.....picking one way or the other wont work because he is wrong 50% of the time.

Just thinking about this in my head and based of the diagrams.

It took me 3 tries to pass the first college algebra class I took.....so all this math business does me no good.
J

If it takes 1.5 seconds for an unblocked A gap defender to get to QB depth....how long does it take for the QB to seat the snap and then run? And can he stay cool until he gets going?

Need a good snap that for sure.

I think regardless of what is going on you must have a plan to block any Down Defender from 4 tech to 4 tech. That would give the QB time to .... play football....run or pass.

You have to consider if you are going to run this then it has to maintain for 4 quarters for an entire season.

To be able to do that its wise to follow what Morris suggests...practice for the worst.
Collect moments, not wins.