Author Topic: kicking pats  (Read 4024 times)

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Offline Yankee Charlie

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kicking pats
« on: September 15, 2011, 10:50:10 AM »
Usually after we make our 1st kick, the defense brings the house. How do you teach your snapper/kicker to audible to a kick formation play that takes advantage of an aggressive 9-10 man block call.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 11:37:04 AM by GACoachYCarr »
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: kicking pats
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2011, 11:01:31 AM »
Curious -

if you're set up for a kick, can you shift to a normal formation and run a play with the tee block in the backfield?  I am thinking you can, just wondering.

Given our situation - our long snapper is our starting FB, our kicker is our QB and our holder is our back-up QB.  So I could just have them shift and run shotgun power right or something.  I don't have anyone seriously out of position, the FB can just do his long snap to the QB and we run the play.  We're already in our DW.

I'm thinking I'd call it from the sideline.  Have the holder look back at me before calling DOWN to set the line, and if I make a motion, he gets up and we shift and we run power right or something.

Interesting thought.  I might have to think about putting that in next week.

Offline Yankee Charlie

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Re: kicking pats
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 11:39:13 AM »
I'd prefer not to shift as that gives the defense a chance to react to that shift. 

I'd rather say "magic word" and the Center knows to direct snap to Kicker and play, whatever it is ensues.  I'm thinking TE out or have the Kicker run a sweep to the sideline, but I don't know.
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: kicking pats
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 12:07:16 PM »
Yup.  I'll be interested to know what you come up with.  We figured out in practice that we can't kick if they bring two off each edge, we just can't block it.  We'll keep practicing to improve our speed of snap/hold/kick, but the reality is, at 10 that ain't getting done if they're coming.  Fortunately, it's pretty rare that teams work on this stuff.  So few teams around here at this age kick, that it's not a good use of time to practice block.  We do, but we don't spend much time on it.

Offline mahonz

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Re: kicking pats
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2011, 03:40:00 PM »
Fire.

Same keyword for when the holder muffs.

For us that tells both TE's to run arrows with the holder throwing the pass.

As a call before the snap...C punt snaps directly to the kicker and he sweeps right or left.

OR...if you are feeling giddy. C snaps to the holder and the holder then blind flips over his shoulder to the kicker. This actually workes very well because the gunner on the D is aiming in front of the holder so he would have to break ankles to adjust. he has committed because the holder received the snap. Kicker walks in IF you can blind flip. Its worth a few reps in practice for fun and to see the possibilities for yourself. The blind flip is a more natural direction for the kicker but you can certainly try it whereas the holder flips it to the kicker on the holders open side as well. Again....the gunner on that side is aiming in front of the holder.

By some odd rule....the holder with his knee down does not kill the play. He can receive the snap and then pass, run or handoff. Probably along the same lines as spiking the football is not intentional grounding...but I'd check with your officials in pre game even if that means the opposing HC hears the discussion. Then maybe they wont bring the house on a PAT?     
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: kicking pats
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2011, 04:44:19 PM »
Having a tee on the field does not commit you in any way in the major codes.  (Even having one on the field for a free kick doesn't commit you to a place kick.)

I wouldn't call it an odd rule that having the holder kneel doesn't kill the play -- it's what keeps the place kick practicable!

When NCAA & Fed made the rule that the ballcarrier was down on touching the ground other than with hands and feet (previously it applied only if the runner was held), they immediately recognized they needed an exception for the place kick holder, or he would have had to squat.  However, it was a few years before they modified the exception to apply also to an ostensible place kick.  That last provision is a little different between Fed & NCAA; I keep forgetting which is which, but one code requires the holder to arise, i.e. get off his knee(s), before doing anything else while holding the ball, while the other allows him to pass as well as run from that position.  So you'd better ask which applies in your games.

As to how to get kids to recognize when to audible out of the kick, the kicker is in best position to see the defense, so you might have him do it.  If you want the holder to do it, I suppose he might count the defenders who are standing up on the inside and assume everyone else (inside or outside) is rushing.

Many leagues have rules differing from the major codes regarding PAT, and some of them do require you to commit to kicking or not kicking before the ball is put in play or even before it is readied for play on a given try down.

Offline mahonz

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Re: kicking pats
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2011, 11:16:55 AM »
Thanks Bob....I always wonder about these "exceptions".

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Offline Coach TonyM

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Re: kicking pats
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2011, 11:33:41 AM »
I use fire as well, it also comes in handy when the qb recognizes an uncovered receiver or a soft cover cornerback, he will say "Fire jacob, fire jacob" this let's Jacob know to jab step and face qb as he is getting a quick pass...

Offline JCYL

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Re: kicking pats
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 03:42:44 AM »
If you don’t have to declare your intentions seems like a dropkick would be better. Direct snap to what is usually a talented player who can run pass or kick all with a call from the sidelines.

Offline robwhitlow

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Re: kicking pats
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 12:13:55 PM »
If you don’t have to declare your intentions seems like a dropkick would be better. Direct snap to what is usually a talented player who can run pass or kick all with a call from the sidelines.

Not sure they would like you drop kicking a PAT?
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Offline JCYL

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Re: kicking pats
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2012, 02:07:09 AM »
 ??? got to reading and forgot what the subject was about, the lil hamster in my head gets wore out some times.

Offline Coach D

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Re: kicking pats
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2012, 02:39:46 AM »
Like Mahonz and Moody we've always used a "fire" call as well.  Usually it has two receivers releasing into the end zone (one deep and one shallow) with the holder rolling out hard and kicker lead blocking or even staying in a pitch relationship if you like.  Done right I have seen it work more times then not.  In fact we won a game going out for a fake field goal and running a pre-determined fire call. 

Offline coachdoug

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Re: kicking pats
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2012, 07:32:44 AM »
As Mahonz mentioned, if your K can throw, having the holder flip him the ball can work well.  We work on this for muffed snaps, but there's no reason it can't be a pre-determined call. The holder does have to come off his knee before he passes or flips the ball (under federation rules).  Here is a video of this concept in action:

[youtube]29R_p3Pbl_E[/youtube]
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 07:34:34 AM by coachdoug »