Author Topic: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?  (Read 4813 times)

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Offline Shamrocks

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This kid is a sick soccer player with a high school leg, many felt he would get Div I offers when he gets to high school, guess what, he is burnt out.  Has played soccer 12 months a year for the past 9 years and told his heartbroken parents that he HATES soccer and wants to try football and just signed up.  He is also an unreal wrestler and top pitcher in our baseball league so I can't wait to get my hands on him.

Our Special Teams coach has always used a kicker that can onside kick and maybe chip in an extra point attempt, not consistently.  We rarely punt if at all....

But with this kid, who 2 years ago at Punt Pass and Kick was boomg 30 yrad + FG's and 40+ yard punts changes everything.

Do we now kick off deep.

Do we go for the 2 point extra point kick now?

Do we punt on 4th and long.

Do we try to bag a 20 yard FG?


What to do?

Offline jrk5150

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2014, 09:41:34 AM »
IMO it doesn't change kick-offs.  I'd keep the deep kick in my bag, show it when you're up big to perhaps keep the other teams (if they scout) honest, and/or use it as a surprise if they load up their front line.  But the principle of why you shouldn't kick deep remains - you are giving the other team's likely best player the ball in space, so you better be VERY sure you can cover it.

You might be able to screw around with directional kicking over the front line with the intent to recover the ball.  Not "deep", but still a risk of open/broken field running by the other team if they get to it quickly.

Punts are a little different since punt returners are frequently taught to leave the ball alone once it hits the ground, so you can directional kick away from the returner and probably be okay.  Or even just kick out of bounds, which is still a field position weapon.

Definitely be doing the PAT's if you have a snapper and holder.  It does take all 3 to make that work.

FG's - I'd play by ear.  Definitely would trot them out in games that aren't very close to practice it, never know when you could need it to win a game.  If your OT is like ours (alternating possessions from the 10), and you're in a fight where both O's are being shut down, that could be a VERY handy weapon to win a game.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2014, 10:10:47 AM »
First off, kicking a football is very different than kicking a soccer ball. The kick off changes in my mind. If he can directional kick or the opponent does not have their deep players back far you can kick it past them. We have actually recoverd kicks where we were able to kick over the deep backs heads. Once the ball goes over their heads they almost always are just trying to get on it and will almost certainly put their knee on the ground in the process of picking it up. Train the kid up to kick deep, directional and onsides and you have a devestating weapon that can win you some games.
As far as the field goals, it depends on how good he is at them. I wouldn't do it unless it was right before the half or to win the game late. If kicked extra points count as 2 then again, you have a very special weapon that most teams do not have. The most difficult thing here, imo is a holder who can consistently catch the ball and place it on the tee in the same spot with laces away.
Punting is great if you have a way to get him the ball safely and he can line drive it out of bounds. A short snap with a roll out is one method. It seems every time in a big game we have punted deep we regretted it. It always seems that is when the punter kicks it right to the deep man on a line drive. Punts scare me. There is just so much that can go wrong. Now, if they don't put anybody back(a pretty common practice), kick away.
It sounds like you have a chance of really having a game changer on special teams. Make sure you and your staff know how to teach this stuff. I would suggest making special teams a larger part of your practice time. I think this kid, if used properly, could become a huge part of your game plan. Too many coaches ignore specials. Do the opposite and make them a strong point. Remember, specials are 1/3rd of the game. It is pretty easy in youth to dominate that 3rd every game. I also think it is the easiest way to generate turnovers and momentum changong plays.

Offline Shamrocks

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2014, 10:43:09 AM »
First off, kicking a football is very different than kicking a soccer ball. The kick off changes in my mind. If he can directional kick or the opponent does not have their deep players back far you can kick it past them. We have actually recoverd kicks where we were able to kick over the deep backs heads. Once the ball goes over their heads they almost always are just trying to get on it and will almost certainly put their knee on the ground in the process of picking it up. Train the kid up to kick deep, directional and onsides and you have a devestating weapon that can win you some games.
As far as the field goals, it depends on how good he is at them. I wouldn't do it unless it was right before the half or to win the game late. If kicked extra points count as 2 then again, you have a very special weapon that most teams do not have. The most difficult thing here, imo is a holder who can consistently catch the ball and place it on the tee in the same spot with laces away.
Punting is great if you have a way to get him the ball safely and he can line drive it out of bounds. A short snap with a roll out is one method. It seems every time in a big game we have punted deep we regretted it. It always seems that is when the punter kicks it right to the deep man on a line drive. Punts scare me. There is just so much that can go wrong. Now, if they don't put anybody back(a pretty common practice), kick away.
It sounds like you have a chance of really having a game changer on special teams. Make sure you and your staff know how to teach this stuff. I would suggest making special teams a larger part of your practice time. I think this kid, if used properly, could become a huge part of your game plan. Too many coaches ignore specials. Do the opposite and make them a strong point. Remember, specials are 1/3rd of the game. It is pretty easy in youth to dominate that 3rd every game. I also think it is the easiest way to generate turnovers and momentum changong plays.

He  won the Punt, Pass and Kick 3 years in a row, (didn't do it last year) but I only seen him kick without pads, without a snap or a D coming after him, lol.  I did see him play soccer a few times in passing, he is a stud there.  I get what you are saying and I am anxious to see him kick a football as I never had a kid with a leg like his, not even close and it never really hurt us to be honest, but as they get older, it would be nice to have that option in my back pocket.

But what I really want from him is his speed and size, due to playing soccer his whole life, he has endless wind and easily becames the 2nd fastest on our team and his size, aggresion and speed has me dreaming to where he will fit in on my D, maybe DT, DE, LB, etc.  I really only have 1 true LB with 2-3 other kids who do just what they need to, or can, and we get by but gezz, if he is a beast I am a happy person!

Offline DL

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2014, 10:45:08 AM »

Do we now kick off deep.

YES/MAYBE - but you have to now practice covering kicks a lot because it is a team skill.   If your team is slow I would still kick directionally over first lines head and try to recover or onside.   If you have decent team speed boot it deep and work on it.    Field position will be a huge boon for you.   So much easier to score on a short field.

Do we go for the 2 point extra point kick now?

You should be doing this regardless with kids over 8 or 9.   The 2 pt. advantage is huge.   It's an extra score the team has to overcome if they can't kick.    It's almost like scoring another touchdown.   The hard part isn't finding a kid to kick it over uprights.   Hard part is the blocking it and the snap and hold.    Difference between youth and other levels is defense doesn't worry about the fake.   They send all 11 so it's that much harder.   Get the snap down and kicked in under 2 secs and you are usually good as long as you let no one through the middle. 

Do we punt on 4th and long?

Again you now have to practice blocking it and covering it after the kick.   But if the kid can boot punts directionally and net you 25 - 35 yards it is a huge advantage.    If they don't handle the punt it can roll for 50+ yards at times and change the whole field position of a game.

Hold a team to a 4 and out after a punt on 4th and long and all of a sudden you only have to 20 yards for a score instead of 50.   Or you get them out of your territory and make them work for a score.
 


Do we try to bag a 20 yard FG?

Too hard IMO.




Offline mahonz

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2014, 10:59:39 AM »
This kid is a sick soccer player with a high school leg, many felt he would get Div I offers when he gets to high school, guess what, he is burnt out.  Has played soccer 12 months a year for the past 9 years and told his heartbroken parents that he HATES soccer and wants to try football and just signed up.  He is also an unreal wrestler and top pitcher in our baseball league so I can't wait to get my hands on him.

Our Special Teams coach has always used a kicker that can onside kick and maybe chip in an extra point attempt, not consistently.  We rarely punt if at all....

But with this kid, who 2 years ago at Punt Pass and Kick was boomg 30 yrad + FG's and 40+ yard punts changes everything.

Do we now kick off deep.

Do we go for the 2 point extra point kick now?

Do we punt on 4th and long.

Do we try to bag a 20 yard FG?


What to do?

S

I have had that player before....dont know about his sokker skills but he was one heck of a kicker. It sounds like this kid you are talking about can be a real weapon for you on ST's. 

He can do a lot of things for you. If you can kick it to the end zone on KO's that is a huge weapon....25 yard FG's....money 2 point PAT's and the ability to seriously change field position on punts. This kid we had once punted the football in a game in the air almost 60 yards. A good friend of mine was the opposing HC that day....afterwards we couldn't stop taking about that kick and had our video guy replay it for us a few times so we could do the math. This kid was an 8th grader at the time.
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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2014, 12:09:29 PM »
He  won the Punt, Pass and Kick 3 years in a row, (didn't do it last year) but I only seen him kick without pads, without a snap or a D coming after him, lol.  I did see him play soccer a few times in passing, he is a stud there.  I get what you are saying and I am anxious to see him kick a football as I never had a kid with a leg like his, not even close and it never really hurt us to be honest, but as they get older, it would be nice to have that option in my back pocket.

But what I really want from him is his speed and size, due to playing soccer his whole life, he has endless wind and easily becames the 2nd fastest on our team and his size, aggresion and speed has me dreaming to where he will fit in on my D, maybe DT, DE, LB, etc.  I really only have 1 true LB with 2-3 other kids who do just what they need to, or can, and we get by but gezz, if he is a beast I am a happy person!
It didn't hurt you but it didn't help either. Not much of a difference.

Offline joshv155

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2014, 12:18:04 PM »
Had a similar situation last season. Couldn't make the end zone but could get it to the 10 just about every time. We varied what we did. After onside kicking a couple times we would kick deep after they brought all their 2nd row players up closer. And we would have in kick away from the return man or in most cases over their head. As the other team was scrambling to get the ball, and one time just stood there and looked at it thinking it was a punt as we recovered inside the 10, our cover team was running past all the players who were expecting an onside kick. PLus our defense was really strong and I had confidence that we would get the back back soon if they recovered the kick. So it was a big help to us……sadly he moved and wont be on our  team next season.
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2014, 03:30:21 PM »
Here's what I think is important -

A lot of what's been mentioned may only work against a poorly coached team, which you're probably going to beat anyway.  For instance, I don't think you'd lose to a team that just stood there and looked at a ball laying on the ground for a kickoff, whether you could kick deep or not.

The key is what you can do with him that will make a difference against a team that you'd struggle to beat without what he can do.  That's where spending some time on ST's would help.  Get the PAT down, that's turns a TD into a two score deficit vs. a team that can't/won't kick.  Be able to kick a FG if the ball is around the 10 or even just inside (might be handy in an OT situation, for instance).  Have kick-off coverage for on-sides, medium directional, and long.  Have him able to punt out of bounds, or away from a return man - meaning you have to work on the snap and blocking.

All of those things can be practiced against bad teams, but I wouldn't set strategy for those teams.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2014, 10:29:42 PM »
Here's what I think is important -

A lot of what's been mentioned may only work against a poorly coached team, which you're probably going to beat anyway.  For instance, I don't think you'd lose to a team that just stood there and looked at a ball laying on the ground for a kickoff, whether you could kick deep or not.

The key is what you can do with him that will make a difference against a team that you'd struggle to beat without what he can do.  That's where spending some time on ST's would help.  Get the PAT down, that's turns a TD into a two score deficit vs. a team that can't/won't kick.  Be able to kick a FG if the ball is around the 10 or even just inside (might be handy in an OT situation, for instance).  Have kick-off coverage for on-sides, medium directional, and long.  Have him able to punt out of bounds, or away from a return man - meaning you have to work on the snap and blocking.

All of those things can be practiced against bad teams, but I wouldn't set strategy for those teams.
This is 100% what I mean. Make specials a strength and they can win games for you against GOOD teams. Good specials in youth can be ahuge advantage. We stress specials and they have won us some games that we would of not won other wise.

Offline MHcoach

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2014, 12:21:44 AM »
Sham

He sounds like an athlete. See where he fits in, heck if he won punt pass & kick he maybe a QB.

Joe
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Offline crissaitch

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2014, 10:14:55 PM »
Without ignoring special teams and kicking ability, I'd be more excited about his size/speed/wresting background. You may have a special TE/WB/H-back on your hands. If he soaks up football knowledge, I agree with Joe; you might have a new QB. He clearly has the arm strength and body control if he's that good of a pitcher.

Offline HCScott

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2014, 11:30:30 PM »
He  won the Punt, Pass and Kick 3 years in a row, (didn't do it last year) but I only seen him kick without pads, without a snap or a D coming after him, lol.  I did see him play soccer a few times in passing, he is a stud there.  I get what you are saying and I am anxious to see him kick a football as I never had a kid with a leg like his, not even close and it never really hurt us to be honest, but as they get older, it would be nice to have that option in my back pocket.

But what I really want from him is his speed and size, due to playing soccer his whole life, he has endless wind and easily becames the 2nd fastest on our team and his size, aggresion and speed has me dreaming to where he will fit in on my D, maybe DT, DE, LB, etc.  I really only have 1 true LB with 2-3 other kids who do just what they need to, or can, and we get by but gezz, if he is a beast I am a happy person!

I don't want to throw cold water but wait until you see him hit one of your experienced players before getting excited. I see a big let down coming your way otherwise. Looks can be deceiving.
"The quarterback must go down and he must go down hard"

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2014, 07:07:13 AM »
I don't want to throw cold water but wait until you see him hit one of your experienced players before getting excited. I see a big let down coming your way otherwise. Looks can be deceiving.
As long as he is taught how to tackle properly and in a progressive way I think almost any kid can be physical. A solid wrestling background is usually a sign that the kid won't shy away from contact. But I agree, never get excited about what a kid can do for you until he actually does it.

Offline HCScott

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Re: We have a 5 start soccer player coming out this season, thoughts?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2014, 11:49:03 AM »
As long as he is taught how to tackle properly and in a progressive way I think almost any kid can be physical. A solid wrestling background is usually a sign that the kid won't shy away from contact. But I agree, never get excited about what a kid can do for you until he actually does it.

The wrestling background is a big plus. I have learned as a coach to be careful with expectations, especially before seeing a player in gear for a few days. Sometimes they change their mind, or who knows what?
After the boy settles into the overall scene hopefully he becomes a player, my experience is that 90% of the boys need a year in gear and progressions to become very aggressive, not to say there aren't exceptions.
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