Author Topic: Zone blocking gap plays  (Read 6927 times)

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Offline rangibson

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Zone blocking gap plays
« on: January 26, 2014, 11:39:50 AM »
Question for those of you who run IZ, OZ, Power and Counter. All this discussion is assuming a 2x2 formation, no pulling, the H Back trapping and kicking, and 6 Defenders in the box, either a 5-1 or 4-2. It seems to me that the philosophy is to teach 3 OL blocking schemes: Zone, Gap, and Pass Pro. Regarding just Zone and Gap blocking... On most Zone blocking, the BSDE is unblocked, (or picked up by a FB or BSTE). This allows more blockers playside. Then on Gap blocking, using some varity of GDB, the BSDE is now blocked. I am a rookie assistant, but it seems to me if the BSDE is not important to block during IZ/OZ, then why block him on Traps (DT) or Kickouts (DE). With that in mind, why not skip Gap Blocking entirely, and use Zone? Again, it seems to me, and not to over simplify, that on Kickouts you change only your PSOT assignments, and on Traps you change your PSOG assignments. As an example: on kickouts, have the PSOT not block the DE (HB kickout) and block B gap to LB. If the DT is 'on' the OG, then the OT goes straight to the LB because the OG and C are Zoning the DT. The rest of the line Zone Blocks. This keeps the extra blocker playside where as with GDB the BSOT block could be wasted on the BSDE. I have seen where some use 'Zone Away', but that also could reduce the number of blockers playside. So in MHO, Zone works for both Zone and Gap plays with a minor adjustment on the Gap plays, reducing the amount of teaching. Any comments are welcome.

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2014, 12:01:12 PM »
Question for those of you who run IZ, OZ, Power and Counter. All this discussion is assuming a 2x2 formation, no pulling, the H Back trapping and kicking, and 6 Defenders in the box, either a 5-1 or 4-2. It seems to me that the philosophy is to teach 3 OL blocking schemes: Zone, Gap, and Pass Pro. Regarding just Zone and Gap blocking... On most Zone blocking, the BSDE is unblocked, (or picked up by a FB or BSTE). This allows more blockers playside. Then on Gap blocking, using some varity of GDB, the BSDE is now blocked. I am a rookie assistant, but it seems to me if the BSDE is not important to block during IZ/OZ, then why block him on Traps (DT) or Kickouts (DE). With that in mind, why not skip Gap Blocking entirely, and use Zone? Again, it seems to me, and not to over simplify, that on Kickouts you change only your PSOT assignments, and on Traps you change your PSOG assignments. As an example: on kickouts, have the PSOT not block the DE (HB kickout) and block B gap to LB. If the DT is 'on' the OG, then the OT goes straight to the LB because the OG and C are Zoning the DT. The rest of the line Zone Blocks. This keeps the extra blocker playside where as with GDB the BSOT block could be wasted on the BSDE. I have seen where some use 'Zone Away', but that also could reduce the number of blockers playside. So in MHO, Zone works for both Zone and Gap plays with a minor adjustment on the Gap plays, reducing the amount of teaching. Any comments are welcome.


BS/DE ALWAYS accounted for (because he is a REAL THREAT) - by formation and/or game plan (EITHER by a BLOCK from H, Y, or Z;  QB on "Keepers"; "Ghost-Reverse" to H or Z; ETC).  It is NEVER "left to chance".

PS:  OUR "Zone" blocking zones off from Inside-Out.  The "Gap" scheme ALSO zones off gaps from Outside-In.  Same effect in reverse, but we need both.

This is FAR, FAR, TOO MUCH to type, but if you are REALLY interested = PHONE me at 804-716-7038 (Virginia).  Be glad to chat with you today.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 01:24:27 PM by billmountjoy »
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com

Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2014, 01:38:07 PM »
Question for those of you who run IZ, OZ, Power and Counter. All this discussion is assuming a 2x2 formation, no pulling, the H Back trapping and kicking, and 6 Defenders in the box, either a 5-1 or 4-2. It seems to me that the philosophy is to teach 3 OL blocking schemes: Zone, Gap, and Pass Pro. Regarding just Zone and Gap blocking... On most Zone blocking, the BSDE is unblocked, (or picked up by a FB or BSTE). This allows more blockers playside. Then on Gap blocking, using some varity of GDB, the BSDE is now blocked. I am a rookie assistant, but it seems to me if the BSDE is not important to block during IZ/OZ, then why block him on Traps (DT) or Kickouts (DE). With that in mind, why not skip Gap Blocking entirely, and use Zone? Again, it seems to me, and not to over simplify, that on Kickouts you change only your PSOT assignments, and on Traps you change your PSOG assignments. As an example: on kickouts, have the PSOT not block the DE (HB kickout) and block B gap to LB. If the DT is 'on' the OG, then the OT goes straight to the LB because the OG and C are Zoning the DT. The rest of the line Zone Blocks. This keeps the extra blocker playside where as with GDB the BSOT block could be wasted on the BSDE. I have seen where some use 'Zone Away', but that also could reduce the number of blockers playside. So in MHO, Zone works for both Zone and Gap plays with a minor adjustment on the Gap plays, reducing the amount of teaching. Any comments are welcome.

R

You are 100% on the right track. Zone fully replaces Gap Rules and if you keep one RB ( H back / FB) in the mix to attack the PS edge defender... the zone deal is now complete. Now you have a least 6 blocking as few as 4 in the real world vs the common youth fronts....depending on your formation of course. 2x2 with an H back trapping and kicking is a bit confusing to me....2x1 makes more sense. 

Call Bill....he will clear your mind.
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Offline rangibson

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2014, 04:22:57 PM »
Coach Mahonz; you are correct..in my discription of the formation it could/should have been 2x1 with the HB as a wing. In that case..do you 'Zone To' or 'Zone AWAY' for your HB kickout plays. Saying it anotherway, using Coach Mountjoys terminology, do you zone from the inside-out or reverse that and Zone outside-in. it seems to me that Zone To, AKA inside-out, puts more blockers playside and at the POA. TY RG

Offline Michael

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2014, 04:26:47 PM »
Coach Mahonz; you are correct..in my discription of the formation it could/should have been 2x1 with the HB as a wing. In that case..do you 'Zone To' or 'Zone AWAY' for your HB kickout plays. Saying it anotherway, using Coach Mountjoys terminology, do you zone from the inside-out or reverse that and Zone outside-in. it seems to me that Zone To, AKA inside-out, puts more blockers playside and at the POA. TY RG

I think that getting more blockers at the POA is not usually one of the goals of zone.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2014, 06:54:54 PM »
Coach Mahonz; you are correct..in my discription of the formation it could/should have been 2x1 with the HB as a wing. In that case..do you 'Zone To' or 'Zone AWAY' for your HB kickout plays. Saying it anotherway, using Coach Mountjoys terminology, do you zone from the inside-out or reverse that and Zone outside-in. it seems to me that Zone To, AKA inside-out, puts more blockers playside and at the POA. TY RG

R

I am not that familiar with Bill's terminology. I am from a different Zone Camp.

As far as 2x1...I am a Spread I or Pro I fan above all because its ambidextrous without showing strength so the D cant really go over or under without showing bubbles.

Spread I vs the typical cover 2 40 front which would leave your 4-2 look in your original post.... you can run Outside Zone either direction regardless with H kicking the play side 5 and the backside 5 unblocked leaving 5 OLM to block 4. That would be rare in my world as a cover 2 40 front is not the norm.

......................M...........S

....................5...2......2....5
.....................T..G..C..G..T
.............................Q

.............................H

.............................T

Spread I vs the typical cover 2 50 front which would leave your 5-1 look in your original post.... you can run Outside Zone either direction regardless with H kicking the play side 9 and the backside 9 unblocked leaving 5 OLM to block 4. That would be rare in my world as a cover 2 50 front is not the norm.

.............................M

...................9....4...0...4.....9
.....................T..G..C..G..T
.............................Q

.............................H

.............................T

Inside Zone is the same numbers game but you would need to determine the bigger threat from the edge and kick him out with H and hold the unblocked edge defender with the QB boot action.

If you add a TE now you are showing strength but that may or may not change the DLM Techs. Still when we play a TE the TE will reveres the direction he zones if he is play side which 9 out of 10 times easily puts him in that added LB'r lap so they tend to cancel each other out. H still kicks the edge defender.

In my world....cover 1 or 3 is the norm so we see a 5-2 or 4-3 box meaning the numbers become more equal....5 OLM blocking 5. Now a highly trained RB comes into play as the alleys will mostly likely change as the game progresses. Like Michael suggests...Zone does not necessarily overload the POA ESPECIALLY at the youth levels where cover 2/ 4 is pretty rare. Zone does not create holes either. It creates alleys.  Michael puts it the best IMHO when describing what actually happens live on grass running Zone...Zone keeps defenders more static  for the DLM and creates interference for the LB'rs while the RB plays off their alignments.

In my world....

......................W....M....S

....................5...2......2....5
.....................T..G..C..G..T
.............................Q

.............................H

.............................T

or

......................M............S

...................9....4...0...4.....9
.....................T..G..C..G..T
.............................Q

.............................H

.............................T

This is where running counters comes into play. If the backside LB'r gets sloppy and begins to flow even slightly ....you will gain 25 yards and why I like the Spread I for this philosophy...H sucker traps are truly one of the best counter plays in all of football.

You could probably survive an entire season running 3 plays...Zone left and right....Sucker traps left and right....play action passes and never change your formation one time....well maybe play Z left and right....oh make that 4 plays...the QB boot keep off all that Zone action guarantees that the backside edge defenders will fall asleep a few times per game. 

Anyway....this philosophy lends itself to your original post or at least how I see it.

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 07:32:00 PM by mahonz »
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Offline fhubert

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2015, 08:07:29 AM »
Mike,

Old post, but can you please describe the H Sucker Trap play when you said, "H sucker traps are truly one of the best counter plays in all of football."

Thanks,
Fred

Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2015, 12:40:14 PM »
Mike,

Old post, but can you please describe the H Sucker Trap play when you said, "H sucker traps are truly one of the best counter plays in all of football."

Thanks,
Fred

Fred

See attached.
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Offline fhubert

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2015, 08:29:52 AM »
Thanks, Mike.  Good stuff!

Fred

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 08:38:48 AM »
IMHO trap really isn't a gap play. Trap for us is one of those specialty plays, it has a different set of rules because of where it hits & the speed it hits at. We consider Power & Counter to be gap plays. While the Trap block itself, isn't the most important block for us, the block that really makes Trap go is the BIL block by the playside tackle. His rule on BIL (Block Inside LineBacker), is to find the first backer inside of him. There are times where we will actually take a Veer release(an outside release) to get to the backer inside. This is according to the D's alignment we see.

Joe
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2015, 10:21:53 AM »
Thanks, Mike.  Good stuff!

Fred
Fred

No problem.

The year we ran the flexbone I couldn't stop designing "drops" off motion....traps and counters.  WOW did those work well. Better than Option. What I like about the Sucker or Wrap actions is the RB is following the pull rather than having to time it up to where the RB is more downhill and hitting right behind the pull....hence the keyword "Sucker". The Lead traps I stole from Calande. I couldn't get them to work in the DW....not enough room....but in the Wing T .....very good plays. We'd even hand off to the lead back and run naked traps with no pulling they hit so quick. Just block trap play side but have the backside pull go directly to MIKE. That is what really inspired me to stop pulling and replace trap with WHAM. You get an extra blocker on the LB'rs and its easier to teach. Plus WHAM you can "trap" any DL tech to include a 0 if you are smooth enough.

Trap is still an expensive teach though like Joe suggests. It is also hit and miss at the youth levels if you play teams with DLM that are not aggressive. Poor DLM can blow up a trap without even trying....if that makes sense.

But at the end of the day the FB Sucker Trap out of the I formation is one of the best plays I have ever taught. If you run it off a Truck Action....really good play and rather easy to teach. Truck for me is Toss Sweep to the TB out of the Broken I.
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2015, 10:30:52 AM »
Mike

I would install Trap every year early on. Against most teams in our league it really wasn't effective, but once we got to regional's it become a big play for us.

On your PP it show's bend, bend; is that how you teach it?

Joe
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2015, 10:39:02 AM »
Mike

I would install Trap every year early on. Against most teams in our league it really wasn't effective, but once we got to regional's it become a big play for us.

On your PP it show's bend, bend; is that how you teach it?

Joe

Joe

Agree. Teach your base....then pass....then exotics like trap.

I dont know what bend bend means?
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2015, 12:45:56 PM »
Mike

The RB's path is bend from one side of the Center to the other, then Bend off the BIL block. The CP's are where is the NG, against a 0 technique the first bend is at the QB's heels & against a 1 technique it is at the Center's heels.

Joe

NOTE: When we run Trap from the Gun it's only one bend at the BIL block.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone blocking gap plays
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2015, 01:47:54 PM »
Mike

The RB's path is bend from one side of the Center to the other, then Bend off the BIL block. The CP's are where is the NG, against a 0 technique the first bend is at the QB's heels & against a 1 technique it is at the Center's heels.

Joe

NOTE: When we run Trap from the Gun it's only one bend at the BIL block.


Joe

Ah....its been a long time....but I'd say my coaching point was get the heck out of the QB's way and then giddy up!  :)

We do this stuff now with a sniffer back executing the pull trap. I sure did have fun running the Flexbone though. Probably the last Season I pulled an OLM. The purists would have taken my Flexbone Card away though. I couldn't stop designing counters and traps because they actually made Option better. I was TOTALLY ass backwards.
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