Author Topic: Defending the UBSW Offense  (Read 158425 times)

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Offline HCScott

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #105 on: June 11, 2014, 01:39:09 AM »

The team that loses the HIGHEST % of "one on one" battles obviously will LOSE the game:

And don't forget we, UBSW, are playing 11 vs 9 generally speaking so we usually get 2 double teams and a match up one on one with a DB vs our ballcarrier.
I take that all day, "punish the tackler"
"The quarterback must go down and he must go down hard"

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #106 on: June 11, 2014, 07:54:52 AM »



So how would you beat it?

BTW, I agree with Cisar that coaches don't follow his book.  I have faced several that obviously had his stuff based on the low crouch and, without exception they either 1) left something out as a deliberate shortcut or  2) Failed to add or 3) Both .  I'd meet them in the playoffs and they're still running the same stuff that won them their first game.

And, as Cisar said, they still went 8-2.   The average youth coach still didn't know how to beat them.  But once they ran into somebody that knew, in one hour their season would be over.


Clark

The defense in the film is from slide 10


There are several ways to address that defense directly from the playbook

The one that comes to the top of my head is 14 Power
We came up with this play maybe 6-7 years ago when JJ first came out with his taps defense
There was a team in our league running it. We would wedge them to death- but we wanted something other than wedge to use.

We really should come up with a different name for that play- because it varies quite a bit from our 16 Power

Everyone blocks GOD with the exception of the PT who blocks the LB sliding into his inside gap
The RTE blocks near backer
We are letting the DT over the PT come through- we are basically trapping him with the BB
Neither PT or RTE are allowed to hit a downlineman on the play- just like the trap--we tell them to avoid defensive lineman like they have a communicable disease

Like the 16- the FB leads- but he blocks the DE- not the CB

The WB has options- on the base play he can peel off and help on the OLB or on "YES"- he runs a reverse action behind the 1 back and rubs his outside hip faking a reverse to the 5 hole or so. It depends on what we see backside as to what we do here. If they are cross keying him and playing tight- we run yes. If not, we don't. SInce these OLBS play so wide and we are so close to the LOS we wouldn't need to block him- we hit that pretty quick. Their CBs are playing so wide, they cant make a play. The safety is a good player and could make the tackle- but he's deep enough we will take the gain. We have a couple of LBs being blocked by 2 of our best players, so that may create something he has to bump around.

That is directly out of the playbook
However if I was playing this team- I might consider adding a couple of tags to make a good play even a better one. Widening the WB a bit to put that DE in conflict, if he wants to engage the WB he takes himself out of the play entirely. My widening the WB we also widen the CB even more and would just have the WB block the CB

Since by rule that NT would be blocked by 3 different players- we would probably release the RT with a level call- sending him to second level against the safety. In all fairness- sometimes we have a kid at that position that wouldn't be able to make that block. We play non select football and have to get everyone in- so we don't have great athletes at every position. Some years we would have a kids who could make that block, some years no chance.

Against that Safety- who again is a pretty good player, we have to get him thinking pass. So we would run several different pass plays where he would need to get into coverage off of that backfield action- so he wouldn't be thinking he could play downhill. We don't have to win on paper or beat a coach- in this case we have to beat an 8 year old  ;D

We could also release our LE via a "paul" call which is our fake Jump pass call.

With the spacing on this alignment- I really like the wedge. We don't have the whole film, but on the 2 wedge plays they ran it looks like they got 7-8 and maybe 3 yards. However neither of the wedge plays threatened the both perimeters like Mouse 32 Wedge or Spinner 32 wedge- 2 very basic plays most teams this age are running. Even without any good backfield action- both of those plays seemed to work.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #107 on: June 11, 2014, 07:57:45 AM »

Dave,

That was one of the better posts I have read in a long while.

It is funny because as much as Mike thinks I do a lot in the offense I run...it all revolves around a common approach. The system once installed allows us to adapt to our kids every year.  With more talent we can do more things but we always approach it first by getting good at our core series and then we adapt to what our kids can do well.  If they can catch and pass well we throw more...if we have more talented running backs we tend to use more ball carriers.  Like you, I believe what makes us good is the approach we use is deeply rooted in a system that allows us to teach basic concepts and expand on those concepts as our kids master them.  I would never be able to bounce around from offense to offense like Mike does...that takes a level of mastery in itself and my personality is not made for that kind of change every year :)

Again great post.

Jack


Jack

Thanks, appreciated

We became a "systems" program out of necessity
Then found out we had been missing out all along

DC
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #108 on: June 11, 2014, 08:04:49 AM »
Mike

I have always been a believer in multiple fronts, I never want the offense to get comfortable where the defense will be. The other issue is to attack the offense, IMHO it's the best way to play in Youth Football. We have always felt an attacking D was the toughest for us to play against, so we always ran one. Contrary to popular thought at the time, we would attack the Wing T & were very successful. Against UBSW & DW we would always have 2 DL who would plug instead of attack. The others would attack.

I think what's important is not to make wholesale changes to what you normally do. Adjustments are 1 thing, changing everything can burn you. Rolling the FS up was part of our package, of course we would change his key depending on the offense. JR calls it inverted C2, we called it C7, a rose by any other name.

Joe

Joe

They key is how much is too much and how much does it vary from your base


We can vary our interior alignment- but again that changes very little of the rest that we do

As the kids get older we have tags we add to the defense to help them be in the most efficient defense to defend the team they are playing- Echo, Eskimo etc

We don't try and bolt the fender of a 57 Chevy onto a 2013 Accord  ;D
Tweaks that fit into what we are already doing
When we are done it still looks like a 2013 Accord
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 09:50:46 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #109 on: June 11, 2014, 08:10:41 AM »
Clark

The numbers game you point out makes me wonder how many UBSW Coaches here will face opponents that don't at least shift to strength?

Every team we  play shifts to strength

One year at 5-6th grade- EVERY TEAM we played ran at least a single play out of unbalanced to see if we shifted correctly

Since almost all of the teams I coach against have my materials- they usually all shift
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #110 on: June 11, 2014, 08:16:58 AM »
First game?  You can bet nobody shifts with an unbalanced line.  It's basic coaching psychology.   We are all trying to get in our offense, kickoff, Kick return, punt, and punt return and the only time spent spent with the defense is, on average, two minutes per player, per season in practice.  Otherwise, it sees what our own offense runs.  So, when the other team comes out unbalanced first game, nobody shifts.  The DC forgets to cover this.  It's an automatic win for the unbalanced team.

I was one of those coaches that got beat this way.  I was a victim of coaching psychology.  Next year, I forgot it again and somebody else did it to me.   DOH!  So then I remembered after that and would make my defense line up on my DCWT offense in about 10 different formations.  You could just about watch the defense's heads explode in their helmets.  I'm like, "What's so hard about this?"

But it is hard.  Even after I trained the "D" to shift, a team suddenly went unbalanced that hadn't done so before in the game on their own one yard line.  Mike saw it and stepped forward to move the DT's down and that's when ball was snapped, 99 yards for a TD.

So I went to the next step and went from "everybody looks" to "one guy looks" and he calls the shift.  Then it got done. 

Meanwhile shifting the front does not shift the coverage and so you end up with a DT and pass defender on a 'Tackle Eligible" who, if the QB is under center, no one will ever throw to.  As you know, DC46 will make the coverage shift, do it seamlessly and without confusion, and end up with your T,C, and E against their C, LG, and LT, thereby numbering up perfectly and with the Tackle Eligible covered. But not many coaches can do this.  It's one of the reasons I've never lost to an UBSW team. 

 
Clark

Sorry

Attending a very close friends, mothers funeral 90 minutes away- attending to family- then home to finish up fort for kids
Im not tied to the forum- I go days without entering or posting

As to unbalanced, you are correct, we measure from midpoint of RG

As to shifting- all of the grade 5-6 and 7-8 teams shift in game 1 and all season
At 3-4 grade- maybe not game 1- but their coaches can be on the field until game 4
If it is a strong, big org, they will be dialed in, they know what we run and will be set up correctly
Other teams it may take them awhile- as the game progresses
In later games ALL those 3-4 grade teams will most likely be aligned correctly
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 08:51:29 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline WBCoach

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #111 on: June 11, 2014, 08:34:14 AM »
You can not defend the UBSW!!!!   ;D ;D 8) :P :P :D ;)....at least mine you can't...lol at myself
Team work: good as gold

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #112 on: June 11, 2014, 08:53:14 AM »
You can not defend the UBSW!!!!   ;D ;D 8) :P :P :D ;)....at least mine you can't...lol at myself

Im very glad to see people putting so much effort into designing unique ways to stop it
YOu don't see many threads about how to stop the "I", Pro or Spread offenses- must mean someone is doing something right  ;D
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #113 on: June 11, 2014, 09:32:59 AM »
And don't forget we, UBSW, are playing 11 vs 9 generally speaking so we usually get 2 double teams and a match up one on one with a DB vs our ballcarrier.
I take that all day, "punish the tackler"


You can't double team everybody.  Neither can you win ALL the 1 on 1 battles!  You must win the MAJORITY.  Drawing blocks on paper does NOT mean the defender will BE blocked on grass.  TOTALLY DIFFERENT!

#1  UBSW is NOT difficult to defend (if you have good players).  The Overshifted-6 was the answer (schematically).
#2  We do not SEE the UBSW anymore.
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Offline WBCoach

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #114 on: June 11, 2014, 09:33:07 AM »
Im very glad to see people putting so much effort into designing unique ways to stop it
YOu don't see many threads about how to stop the "I", Pro or Spread offenses- must mean someone is doing something right  ;D
You got that right.  ;)
Team work: good as gold

Offline WBCoach

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #115 on: June 11, 2014, 09:34:34 AM »

You can't double team everybody.  Neither can you win ALL the 1 on 1 battles!  You must win the MAJORITY.  Drawing blocks on paper does NOT mean the defender will BE blocked on grass.  TOTALLY DIFFERENT!

#1  UBSW is NOT difficult to defend.  The Overshifted-6 was the answer (schematically).
#2  We do not SEE the UBSW anymore.
What is the over shifted 6?
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #116 on: June 11, 2014, 09:41:51 AM »
What is the over shifted 6?

I ELABORATED on the "Overshifted-6" in reply #95 on this discussion yesterday.  Check it out.

PS:  We no longer SEE a UBSW.  Teams here try to mimick what they see SEC & ACC teams (Bama, Florida St, Auburn, etc.) do.
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #117 on: June 11, 2014, 09:42:25 AM »

You can't double team everybody.  Neither can you win ALL the 1 on 1 battles!  You must win the MAJORITY.  Drawing blocks on paper does NOT mean the defender will BE blocked on grass.  TOTALLY DIFFERENT!

#1  UBSW is NOT difficult to defend (if you have good players).  The Overshifted-6 was the answer (schematically).
#2  We do not SEE the UBSW anymore.

Not true
In Virginia there are a handful of SW teams doing very well. Stonebridge has been Nationally Ranked IIRC-
http://www.maxpreps.com/local/team/records/year_by_year_results.aspx?gendersport=boys,football&schoolid=3052a842-2148-49f7-9c6b-1bae2ea57680

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/22/AR2005112200102.html
One of them beat the team you used to help or maybe were helping at the time- the last season I looked

« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 09:46:59 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #118 on: June 11, 2014, 09:54:35 AM »
Not true
In Virginia there are a handful of SW teams doing very well. Stonebridge has been Nationally Ranked IIRC-
One of them beat the team you used to help or maybe were helping at the time- the last season I looked


"Handful" is right!  I can count the UBSW teams in Va on ONE hand.  I have not coached "on the field" vs. a UBSW team since we beat Stone Bridge (2003) & Giles (1996), using only the Overshifted-6 & Wide Tackle-6.  Stone Bridge & Giles ARE well coached (Ragsdale's father was a good friend of mine). 
Last time I coached vs. Mark Fisher on the field was 2001 (he was at Armstrong HS & in the UBSW) we won 28-7 (using the Overshifted-6 & Wide Tackle-6).  Stop by & look at the films with me.

Most HS teams in Va. are into more updated concepts of offensive football.  HS players in the South like to "identify" with Florida St, Alabama, Auburn, etc. (they have never SEEN a UBSW on TV).
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 10:10:36 AM by billmountjoy »
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #119 on: June 11, 2014, 10:08:28 AM »

"Handful" is right.  I can count the UBSW teams in Va on ONE hand.  I have not coached "on the field" vs. a UBSW team since we beat Stone Bridge (2003) & Giles (1996).  Stone Bridge & Giles ARE well coached (Ragsdale's father was a good friend of mine). 
Last time I coached vs. Mark Fisher on the field was 2001 (he was at Armstrong & in the UBSW) we won 28-7.  Stop by & look at the film with me.

Most HS teams in Va. are into more updated concepts of offensive football.  HS players in the South like to "identify" with Florida St, Alabama, Auburn, etc. (they have never SEEN a UBSW on TV).
Your own words were:
#2  We do not SEE the UBSW anymore.

That is incorrect

The team you used to report on all the time on the Delphi SW Forum- that I think you were helping lost the last time they played a SW team

Amazing such a tiny group of teams would have so much success in such a short period of time  ;D

The goal is to win the game
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill