Author Topic: Defending the UBSW Offense  (Read 158420 times)

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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #120 on: June 11, 2014, 10:18:28 AM »
Your own words were:
#2  We do not SEE the UBSW anymore.

That is incorrect

The team you used to report on all the time on the Delphi SW Forum- that I think you were helping lost the last time they played a SW team

Amazing such a tiny group of teams would have so much success in such a short period of time  ;D

The goal is to win the game

I help a LOT of HS teams in the area with suggestions that are solicited.  I have not coached ON the field in 11 years (so I can't take credit/blame anymore). 

The ONLY team I follow that even plays a (part-time) UBSW team ANYMORE is Powhatan (vs. Louisa).  Louisa is not 100% UBSW running a BUNCH of other crap.  Powhatan USUALLY wins, and has a far better program (although Louisa has better TALENT).  Powhatan now uses a 4-4/Cover 3 (because they only see a part-time UBSW once), and hasn't used our Overshifted-6 & Wide-6 since beating Stone Bridge in 2003.

The UBSW is DEAD in Va except for Stone Bridge & Giles (over 450 other schools don't use it)  The BEST HS programs in Va are Centerville, Lloyd C, Bird, Dinwiddie, Oscar Smith, Phoebus, ETC.

PS:  Hope your book sales are up!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 10:32:41 AM by billmountjoy »
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Offline belebuch

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #121 on: June 11, 2014, 10:23:23 AM »
Perhaps ol Mahonz should move to VA, he says CO is SW hell and Coach Cisar is Satan lol
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 10:25:22 AM by belebuch »

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #122 on: June 11, 2014, 10:29:17 AM »
The UBSW was a fine offense for us in 1963.  I personally don't want to be using it in TODAY'S football (because in my honest opinion there are more efficient ways to move the ball)!

Virginia 2013 State Champions:
All brackets (1A = lowest & 6A = highest):
1A - Altavista Combined School (Altavista) def. Essex (Tappahannock), 21-0
2A - Giles (Pearisburg) def. Brunswick (Lawrenceville), 20-19
3A - Northside (Roanoke) def. Monroe (Fredericksburg), 24-10
4A - Dinwiddie def. Sherando (Stephens City), 56-14
5A - Bird (Chesterfield) def. Briar Woods (Ashburn), 35-28
6A - Centreville (Clifton) def. Oscar Smith (Chesapeake), 35-6

Only Giles used the UBSW.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 10:34:36 AM by billmountjoy »
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #123 on: June 11, 2014, 10:30:34 AM »
Bill

Thanks- appreciate it very much

Were doing 21 clinics this year  ;D the largest non mandatory youth clinic in the Nation in Georgia will be at end of July at the Georgia Mountain Center- you are welcome to attend0 we will be in the big auditorium.

You used to post that teams score that you were helping religiously there on Delphi- until they started losing  ;D

Amazing that Louisa has more talent, when Mark got there they were awful, they had won just a few games, they stunk
Incredible turnaround
The film I saw of them- they might have had 2 kids under 4.9 fortys. They were tiny and small, just awful. Mark gave me their entire season-
He had them playing for a state title in what 2 years?

Mark did the same thing at later stops- running SW

Osbourn won a State Title using the SW , Louisa played for another one and I saw another team called Prince Something running it. Several of the Giles- Stonebridge- Louisa- assts have or are running it where they landed. I don't follow the HS game with the exception of Apopka- Im a youth guy  ;D

My personal teams have gone 161-21 and never lost an out of conference or tournament game- what we do scheme wise and the reason so many people have bought my book and go to my clinics is only about 10% of the reason why. But why would we ever change from that level of success.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 10:43:04 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #124 on: June 11, 2014, 10:41:22 AM »
The UBSW was a fine offense for us in 1963.  I personally don't want to be using it in TODAY'S football (because in my honest opinion there are more efficient ways to move the ball)!

Virginia 2013 State Champions:
All brackets (1A = lowest & 6A = highest):
1A - Altavista Combined School (Altavista) def. Essex (Tappahannock), 21-0
2A - Giles (Pearisburg) def. Brunswick (Lawrenceville), 20-19
3A - Northside (Roanoke) def. Monroe (Fredericksburg), 24-10
4A - Dinwiddie def. Sherando (Stephens City), 56-14
5A - Bird (Chesterfield) def. Briar Woods (Ashburn), 35-28
6A - Centreville (Clifton) def. Oscar Smith (Chesapeake), 35-6

Only Giles used the UBSW.

Amazing- great info, appreciate it

Seems like the tiny handful of SW teams have such amazing success
Everyone is Spread-so you have a whole bunch of spread teams with losing records

For me- I like running something not everyone else is running- makes it much harder to prepare for- that and a whole list of other reasons at the youth level that I would be happy to share
Heck all these crazy defenses- much different from what everyone runs weeks 1-9
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #125 on: June 11, 2014, 10:51:21 AM »
Bill

Thanks- appreciate it very much

Were doing 21 clinics this year  ;D the largest non mandatory youth clinic in the Nation in Georgia will be at end of July at the Georgia Mountain Center- you are welcome to attend0 we will be in the big auditorium.

You used to post that teams scores religiously there- until they started losing  ;D

Amazing that Louisa has more talent, when Mark got there they were awful, they had won just a few games, they stunk
Incredible turnaround
The film I saw of them- they might have had 2 kids under 4.9 fortys. They were tiny and small, just awful. Mark gave me their entire season-
He had them playing for a state title in what 2 years?

Mark did the same thing at later stops- running SW

Osbourn won a State Title using the SW , Louisa played for another one and I saw another team called Prince Something running it. Several of the Giles- Stonebridge- Louisa- assts have or are running it where they landed. I don't follow the HS game with the exception of Apopka- Im a youth guy  ;D

My personal teams have gone 161-21 and never lost an out of conference or tournament game- what we do scheme wise and the reason so many people have bought my book and go to my clinics is only about 10% of the reason why. But why would we ever change from that level of success.

The ONLY team I spoke of on Delphi SW was Powhatan.  Check out the ATTACHMENT (below) for Powhatan.  They NEVER STOPPED WINNING (& their coach was inducted into the Virginia High School Hall of Fame while STILL ACTIVE - a real rarity).

Mark's UBSW was a "different breed of cat" from your book (FAR more updated).  I think Mark did a FINE job at Louisa, and  he had GREAT talent (if you look at his 2006 team which, I believe, was the only Louisa team to go deep into the playoffs before losing to Amherst).  Louisa is less than 35 miles from here and I saw some of his games in person - unlike you.  Don't believe he had that success before or after Louisa (I don't know of his past few years).

The only time I stood on the sideline ACROSS from him was in 2001.  If you speak with Mark - ask him about the 2001 Atlee vs. Armstrong game.  He came over 4-0 with OUTSTANDING talent & was heavily favored (we were average).  We won 28-7 (using only the Overshifted-6 & Wide Tackle-6).  His 7 points came vs. our second "D" (we subbed late ahead 28-0).

Don't believe Osborne has run the UBSW for a few years (you just don't SEE it in Va except on RARE occasions).  A local Youth League Coach (Jerry Cannaday) won 97 games & lost 3 running only a Power-I.  Another (Kenny Crews in Ettrick) has had similar success in running our "ECO".  Why would they change from that "level of success"?

PS:  I sincerely hope Mark has recovered from a recent illness.

SEE ATTACHMENT ON POWHATAN (Louisa could only DREAM of having a "program" like this):
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 11:10:45 AM by billmountjoy »
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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #126 on: June 11, 2014, 11:11:01 AM »
Im very glad to see people putting so much effort into designing unique ways to stop it
YOu don't see many threads about how to stop the "I", Pro or Spread offenses- must mean someone is doing something right  ;D

Dave

Very true. The reason for this Thread is that I get a lot of PM's from coaches here asking about defending it since we see the SW more then the norm. That's a compliment to the SW as a whole.
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #127 on: June 11, 2014, 11:15:00 AM »
Dave

Very true. The reason for this Thread is that I get a lot of PM's from coaches here asking about defending it since we see the SW more then the norm. That's a compliment to the SW as a whole.

I am FIRM in my belief that NO offense (including mine) is a "magic elixir" (the better DEFENSIVE teams generally prevail anyway).

If there WAS such a thing as a "magic X & O's" then everybody would be using it (and HALF of them would LOSE each week so it would be no better than a .500 offense at best).
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 11:17:50 AM by billmountjoy »
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Online mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #128 on: June 11, 2014, 11:15:42 AM »
Joe

They key is how much is too much and how much does it vary from your base


We can vary our interior alignment- but again that changes very little of the rest that we do

As the kids get older we have tags we add to the defense to help them be in the most efficient defense to defend the team they are playing- Echo, Eskimo etc

We don't try and bolt the fender of a 57 Chevy onto a 2013 Accord  ;D
Tweaks that fit into what we are already doing
When we are done it still looks like a 2013 Accord

Dave

You should flip that around. We'd all rather be driving that 57 Chevy.  ;)
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Offline Michael

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #129 on: June 11, 2014, 11:18:39 AM »
I'd rather walk around carrying the fender from the Chevy than drive the Accord.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 11:31:15 AM by Michael »
Michael can not receive PM's, emails or respond to Posts. He passed away in September 2018. To honor his contributions we are leaving his account active. R.I.P - Dumcoach Staff.

Online mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #130 on: June 11, 2014, 11:28:08 AM »
I am FIRM in my belief that NO offense(including mine) is a "magic elixir" (the better DEFENSIVE teams generally prevail anyway).

If there WAS such a thing as a "magic X & O's" then everybody would be using it.

Bill

I believe the UBSW is a great choice at the youth levels because it takes advantage of inexperienced DC's. This is especially true at the entry levels. You'd have to think that some wont even know what to google because they dont know what it is.

It is very popular with the little dudes in my league then it tails off. But the teams that run at at the older age groups get into all the spin stuff making it really tough to defend and very fun to watch.

We as coaches here on the Forum can say this and that all we want....but can we translate what we want to the kids vs something unusual. The ideas I posted up in this Thread at least allows the players to see whats happening rather than running around the field like stooges. I think your over shifted WT6 does the same things but for me does not have enough second level support. Its the first level defenders that start spinning like tops vs these smoke and mirror type Offenses.

Vs Dave's version of the SW its worse.....the backs are so low and close to the LOS you absolutely cannot see the football at first.

Its why I like to run a pure passing Empty package ASAP....it takes advantage of inexperienced DC's.
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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #131 on: June 11, 2014, 11:43:44 AM »
Perhaps ol Mahonz should move to VA, he says CO is SW hell and Coach Cisar is Satan lol

LOL

Only in a Church Lady funny sort of way.

http://youtu.be/8U1Jv5JoxaM
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #132 on: June 11, 2014, 11:45:39 AM »
Bill

I believe the UBSW is a great choice at the youth levels because it takes advantage of inexperienced DC's. This is especially true at the entry levels. You'd have to think that some wont even know what to google because they dont know what it is.

It is very popular with the little dudes in my league then it tails off. But the teams that run at at the older age groups get into all the spin stuff making it really tough to defend and very fun to watch.

We as coaches here on the Forum can say this and that all we want....but can we translate what we want to the kids vs something unusual. The ideas I posted up in this Thread at least allows the players to see whats happening rather than running around the field like stooges. I think your over shifted WT6 does the same things but for me does not have enough second level support. Its the first level defenders that start spinning like tops vs these smoke and mirror type Offenses.

Vs Dave's version of the SW its worse.....the backs are so low and close to the LOS you absolutely cannot see the football at first.

Its why I like to run a pure passing Empty package ASAP....it takes advantage of inexperienced DC's.


You're ASSUMING "inexperienced" defensive coordinators.  Making such "assumptions" can be FATAL on all levels of football.  Coaches can be "out-of-touch" at any levels of experience!

If you think that Dave's "success" (that he likes to remind us of) is DUE to the UBSW - then you must be willing to admit that someone more successful running a DIFFERENT offense must have a BETTER offense - correct?  For example - my HS coach had a record of 61 wins & 2 losses in his career at our HS.  That is a better winning % than Dave has.  He ran the simple SPLIT-T (FAR simpler to TEACH then the UBSW).  Does that make the Split-T superior to the UBSW (based upon his winning % vs. Dave's = then it WOULD be)?

Maybe I'll sell the playbook on the Split-T (simpler & more effective than the UBSW) = Example = ATTACHED:
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 12:03:07 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline Luc

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #133 on: June 11, 2014, 11:47:32 AM »
Dave
Very true. The reason for this Thread is that I get a lot of PM's from coaches here asking about defending it since we see the SW more then the norm. That's a compliment to the SW as a whole.
OK, maybe with all the heavy weights involved in this thread I should just shut-up and read, but then again, when did I learn to do that (never).

I have my own theory as to why SW/DW/generally contrarian offenses do better than average in youth ball, especially if compared with more mainstream offenses.

What type of coach will take the time to look into an offense, read about it, buy a book or find some info online, and buy into a SYSTEM?

Chances are, a coach who wants to be more organized than your average Joe (no offense meant Coach Joe -- we all know you are not average :)

That kind of coach will more often than not have some kind of understanding of blocking rules, techniques, organized practice, and would probably have success with almost ANY OFFENSE.

On the other hand, you have the "coaches" who played some ball years back as a WR or RB or DB, and who watch 5 games of NFL or College ball per week and ask themselves after 30 seconds of reflexion: "9 years old ball, how hard can it be?"

And of those, most will pick something they see on TV, and will NOT put any kind of effort to learn how to make it work.

Now on one side you have coaches who are studying and trying to learn how to make an offense work (the SW guys for example), and on the other, you have the same kind of coaches, but diluted in a sea of guys who think they already know everything (and more) a 9 years old might ever need, and you know, how hard can it be?

Regardless of what offense they run, WHO DO YOU THINK WILL BE MORE SUCCESSFUL as a group?

Sometimes the right answer is not as important as the right question.

Luc
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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #134 on: June 11, 2014, 11:55:30 AM »

You're ASSUMING "inexperienced" defensive coordinators.  Making such "assumptions" can be FATAL on all levels of football.  Coaches can be "out-of-touch" at any levels of experience!

If you think that Dave's "success" (that he likes to remind us of) is DUE to the UBSW - then you must be willing to admit that someone more successful running a DIFFERENT offense must have a BETTER offense - correct?  For example - my HS coach had a record of 61 wins & 2 losses in his career at our HS.  That is a better winning % than Dave has.  He ran the simple SPLIT-T (FAR simpler to TEACH then the UBSW).  Does that make the Split-T superior to the UBSW (based upon his winning % vs. Dave's = then it WOULD be)?

Bill

Very true and believe me I assume nothing. Just what I have seen in general especially with the little dudes....new Staffs and all. As things progress so does the level of experience.

I think Dave's success has little to do with running the UBSW directly....its the entire Program he puts together. I also believe his Minions can have success by not following his Program to the letter and still run the UBSW....if that makes sense.
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