Author Topic: Defending the UBSW Offense  (Read 158430 times)

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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #135 on: June 11, 2014, 11:59:15 AM »
Bill

Very true and believe me I assume nothing. Just what I have seen in general especially with the little dudes....new Staffs and all. As things progress so does the level of experience.

I think Dave's success has little to do with running the UBSW directly....its the entire Program he puts together. I also believe his Minions can have success by not following his Program to the letter and still run the UBSW....if that makes sense.


EXACTLY:

I believe what General Neyland, Bud Wilkinson, & Bear Bryant believed = there are three phases to the game = DEFENSE, KICKING & OFFENSE (in THAT order).

And let us not forget that ALL-IMPORTANT "SITUATIONS" (talent, tradition, staff, ETC) mean a LOT.  When I coached at Huguenot Academy we never lost a game.  When I coached at Colonial Heights you fought your ass off to go over .500!

If Dave brought his team to the Chesterfield (Va) Youth League - he would find out quickly how good a coach he is (or is not).  From what I saw of his team on DVD - they might want to stay at home,  The BEST football in Va. now in played in Chesterfield Co., Va. Beach, & Hampton (Loudon Co. too).
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 01:16:43 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline HCScott

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #136 on: June 11, 2014, 12:00:11 PM »

You can't double team everybody.  Neither can you win ALL the 1 on 1 battles!  You must win the MAJORITY.  Drawing blocks on paper does NOT mean the defender will BE blocked on grass.  TOTALLY DIFFERENT!

#1  UBSW is NOT difficult to defend (if you have good players).  The Overshifted-6 was the answer (schematically).
#2  We do not SEE the UBSW anymore.

How can I argue with a man of your experience and knowledge? And I don't want to because I've been reading your posts voraciously and learning every day now.
I'm not in the South but the Northwest. Imagine 35 degrees and pouring down rain at night to finish your season with 11, 12 year olds. That's why I love the SW and punishing the defense.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #137 on: June 11, 2014, 12:05:04 PM »
OK, maybe with all the heavy weights involved in this thread I should just shut-up and read, but then again, when did I learn to do that (never).

I have my own theory as to why SW/DW/generally contrarian offenses do better than average in youth ball, especially if compared with more mainstream offenses.

What type of coach will take the time to look into an offense, read about it, buy a book or find some info online, and buy into a SYSTEM?

Chances are, a coach who wants to be more organized than your average Joe (no offense meant Coach Joe -- we all know you are not average :)

That kind of coach will more often than not have some kind of understanding of blocking rules, techniques, organized practice, and would probably have success with almost ANY OFFENSE.

On the other hand, you have the "coaches" who played some ball years back as a WR or RB or DB, and who watch 5 games of NFL or College ball per week and ask themselves after 30 seconds of reflexion: "9 years old ball, how hard can it be?"

And of those, most will pick something they see on TV, and will NOT put any kind of effort to learn how to make it work.

Now on one side you have coaches who are studying and trying to learn how to make an offense work (the SW guys for example), and on the other, you have the same kind of coaches, but diluted in a sea of guys who think they already know everything (and more) a 9 years old might ever need, and you know, how hard can it be?

Regardless of what offense they run, WHO DO YOU THINK WILL BE MORE SUCCESSFUL as a group?

Sometimes the right answer is not as important as the right question.

Luc

L

I think the problem is plain as day right here on this Forum....look at how many Posts there are in the Offense Sections compared to the Defense Sections. Defense is almost an after thought and I seriously doubt these coaches that you reference are watching how Pete Carroll's D is operating....they are watching Peyton Manning with a little bit of droool on their chins.  :P
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #138 on: June 11, 2014, 12:07:38 PM »
How can I argue with a man of your experience and knowledge? And I don't want to because I've been reading your posts voraciously and learning every day now.
I'm not in the South but the Northwest. Imagine 35 degrees and pouring down rain at night to finish your season with 11, 12 year olds. That's why I love the SW and punishing the defense.

If you want to "punish the defense" try the POWER-I!  Without having to pull people, & without intricate ball-handling (& direct snaps with a wet ball) = it would go WELL in 35 degrees & pouring rain!

Watch Michigan St play.  They play in a similar environment & have NOT run a UBSW in 60 years!  They run a Power running game from a One-Back like ours!  There are High Schools in Washington (Craig Beverlin, etc) & Oregon (Wayne Riner) using this style offense WELL.

PS:  I have always thought the impact of weather on the STYLE offense you run was over-rated (like Lombardi said = it is a "MENTAL" thing)!  I'm old enough to remember the Packers beating the Cowboys in the "Ice Bowl", & the Patriots beating the Raiders in the "Snow Bowl".  It snows here in Va sometimes in Oct & Nov, too!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 01:19:21 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #139 on: June 11, 2014, 01:20:22 PM »

EXACTLY:

I believe what General Neyland, Bud Wilkinson, & Bear Bryant believed = there are three phases to the game = DEFENSE, KICKING & OFFENSE (in THAT order).

And let us not forget that ALL-IMPORTANT "SITUATIONS" (talent, tradition, staff, ETC) mean a LOT.  When I coached at Huguenot Academy we never lost a game.  When I coached at Colonial Heights you fought your ass off to go over .500!

If Dave brought his team to the Chesterfield (Va) Youth League - he would find out quickly how good a coach he is (or is not).  From what I saw of his team on DVD - they might want to stay at home,  The BEST football in Va. now in played in Chesterfield Co., Va. Beach, & Hampton.

Weve never lost an out of league or out of state tourney game ever
Nothing to prove- if they want to- they can come here

To top that off- we are doing it without running off any MPR kids, not sending any kids down to another team. not selectively recruiting and retaining everyone- A lot different equation than many if not most youth football teams. A MUCH more difficult equation when you do it that way

LOTS of Pop Warner. AAU. AYF and Unlimited National Champions running this system and approach by the book, to the letter- playing against anyone that will play- just like us
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #140 on: June 11, 2014, 01:24:35 PM »
Weve never lost an out of league or out of state tourney game ever
Nothing to prove- if they want to- they can come here

To top that off- we are doing it without running off any MPR kids, not sending any kids down to another team. not selectively recruiting and retaining everyone- A lot different equation than many if not most youth football teams. A MUCH more difficult equation when you do it that way

LOTS of Pop Warner. AAU. AYF and Unlimited National Champions running this system and approach by the book, to the letter- playing against anyone that will play- just like us
 

If you SAY so.  I've seen DVD of your teams, & believe me, you don't want to come to Va.  Don't see too much UBSW around anymore (it STARTED "dying out" in Va in 1945).  Wonder WHY?

Answer me this:  If you attribute your "success" to the UBSW - then is a coach with more success than you running a Split-T running a BETTER offense?

No "B.S." = just a straight answer!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 01:32:57 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #141 on: June 11, 2014, 01:30:51 PM »
The ONLY team I spoke of on Delphi SW was Powhatan.  Check out the ATTACHMENT (below) for Powhatan.  They NEVER STOPPED WINNING (& their coach was inducted into the Virginia High School Hall of Fame while STILL ACTIVE - a real rarity).

Mark's UBSW was a "different breed of cat" from your book (FAR more updated).  I think Mark did a FINE job at Louisa, and  he had GREAT talent (if you look at his 2006 team which, I believe, was the only Louisa team to go deep into the playoffs before losing to Amherst).  Louisa is less than 35 miles from here and I saw some of his games in person - unlike you.  Don't believe he had that success before or after Louisa (I don't know of his past few years).

The only time I stood on the sideline ACROSS from him was in 2001.  If you speak with Mark - ask him about the 2001 Atlee vs. Armstrong game.  He came over 4-0 with OUTSTANDING talent & was heavily favored (we were average).  We won 28-7 (using only the Overshifted-6 & Wide Tackle-6).  His 7 points came vs. our second "D" (we subbed late ahead 28-0).

Don't believe Osborne has run the UBSW for a few years (you just don't SEE it in Va except on RARE occasions).  A local Youth League Coach (Jerry Cannaday) won 97 games & lost 3 running only a Power-I.  Another (Kenny Crews in Ettrick) has had similar success in running our "ECO".  Why would they change from that "level of success"?

PS:  I sincerely hope Mark has recovered from a recent illness.

SEE ATTACHMENT ON POWHATAN (Louisa could only DREAM of having a "program" like this):
'

Bill

Im friends with Mark
Ive heard him present what he does
VERY similar to what we do- but of course at the HS level- his teams look more like my 7-8th grade teams

Yeah he never threw much, we do and I never saw them do a lot of Spread SW or Jet stuff like we do

When you did the review of my book- which was VERY positive, you must have had a very old non edited edition I think you got from someone else
It's been updated quite a bit

Its also specifically designed for the youth level- to win at the youth level- not High School. However I am presently working with 2 Nebraska High Schools right now as we speak. While they run the basics, we do a few things a bit differently there- neither of the High SChools Im working with have a minimum play rule or 25 kid rosters  ;D

Ive seen more of his games than you- he sent me his ENTIRE season on DVD- so not sure how being there live is any better  ::)

Mark did have success after he left Louisa, I think it was another turnaround thing, he likes challenges and doesn't think anyone anywhere has to settle for being .500

http://www.maxpreps.com/local/team/records/year_by_year_results.aspx?gendersport=boys,football&schoolid=64c3d32c-3bc5-4ab7-ba77-4a84e77816fe

After Mark left, they didn't do well
Prior to when Mark got there my goodness they were awful
Their film- he did a lot with very little, very small, very slow
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 01:42:18 PM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #142 on: June 11, 2014, 01:35:01 PM »
 

If you SAY so.  Don't see too much UBSW around anymore (it STARTED "dying out" in Va in 1945).  Wonder WHY?

Answer me this:  If you attribute your "success" to the UBSW - then is a coach with more success than you running a Split-T running a BETTER offense?

No "B.S." = just a straight answer!

Here are all the scores: http://winningyouthfootball.com/resources.php
Easily verifiable and a number of coaches on this board have seen us play out of state

For MANY years I sold complete season DVDs with every play in every game
But seems like no one really wanted them so we stopped selling them- but it did verify everything we did that's the straight answer

Like Ive stated MANY times including on this thread- we win because of the entire approach, the offense is a small part of it
But it works, the results are the results and it helps us meet our mission which goes far beyond football
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #143 on: June 11, 2014, 01:38:47 PM »
The ONLY team I spoke of on Delphi SW was Powhatan.  Check out the ATTACHMENT (below) for Powhatan.  They NEVER STOPPED WINNING (& their coach was inducted into the Virginia High School Hall of Fame while STILL ACTIVE - a real rarity).

Mark's UBSW was a "different breed of cat" from your book (FAR more updated).  I think Mark did a FINE job at Louisa, and  he had GREAT talent (if you look at his 2006 team which, I believe, was the only Louisa team to go deep into the playoffs before losing to Amherst).  Louisa is less than 35 miles from here and I saw some of his games in person - unlike you.  Don't believe he had that success before or after Louisa (I don't know of his past few years).

The only time I stood on the sideline ACROSS from him was in 2001.  If you speak with Mark - ask him about the 2001 Atlee vs. Armstrong game.  He came over 4-0 with OUTSTANDING talent & was heavily favored (we were average).  We won 28-7 (using only the Overshifted-6 & Wide Tackle-6).  His 7 points came vs. our second "D" (we subbed late ahead 28-0).

Don't believe Osborne has run the UBSW for a few years (you just don't SEE it in Va except on RARE occasions).  A local Youth League Coach (Jerry Cannaday) won 97 games & lost 3 running only a Power-I.  Another (Kenny Crews in Ettrick) has had similar success in running our "ECO".  Why would they change from that "level of success"?

PS:  I sincerely hope Mark has recovered from a recent illness.

SEE ATTACHMENT ON POWHATAN (Louisa could only DREAM of having a "program" like this):

They NEVER STOPPED WINNING
Not so fast Bill,
Looks like Powhatan stopped winning the last 2 years which coincided when you stopped posting their scores and the 1 year they lost to at least 1 SW team:
http://www.maxpreps.com/local/team/records/year_by_year_results.aspx?gendersport=boys,football&schoolid=cd41ce52-ef1c-4296-84ee-9a25dbc387cd

No doubt a team that has done well in the past
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 01:43:40 PM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #144 on: June 11, 2014, 01:39:33 PM »
Bill,
   I coach Pop Warner and have won 2 Pop Warner national titles running his system(we do run other stuff but Dave's system was our base in 2008 and 09 when we went a combined 32-1 those seasons with 1 title).  His claims to the success of his system are legit. I can say that, at least imo, what Dave offers to the youth coach is a system where the teaching of football, to include how to's of the basics, installation process, practice plans and management(this is maybe the worst part of the average youth football team - poorly ran practices) a complete playbook with adjustments and multiple formations, help with scouting, play calling etc. The new coach could use his system and be able to survive. It is not necessarily his specific scheme(which is solid imho) but more the other stuff which actually make up the meat and potatoes of his system. The best tool in Dave's system is his practice methodology. Probably not earth shattering stuff but again, that is the area where most youth coaches need the most help imho.

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #145 on: June 11, 2014, 01:40:10 PM »
'

Bill

Im friends with Mark
Ive heard him present what he does
VERY similar to what we do- but of course at the HS level- his teams look more like my 7-8th grade teams

Yeah he never threw much, we do and I never saw them do a lot of Spread SW or Jet stuff like we do

When you did the review of my book- which was VERY positive, you must have had a very old non edited edition I think you got from someone else
It's been updated quite a bit

Its also specifically designed for the youth level- to win at the youth level- not High School. However I am presently working with 2 Nebraska High Schools right now as we speak. While they run the basics, we do a few things a bit differently there- neither of the High SChools Im working with have a minimum play rule or 25 kid rosters  ;D

Ive seen more of his games than you- he sent me his ENTIRE season on DVD- so not sure how being there live is any better  ::)

Mark did have success after he left Louisa, I think it was another turnaround thing, he likes challenges and doesn't think anyone anywhere has to settle for being .500

http://www.maxpreps.com/local/team/records/year_by_year_results.aspx?gendersport=boys,football&schoolid=64c3d32c-3bc5-4ab7-ba77-4a84e77816fe

After Mark left, they didn't do well
Prior to when Mark got there my goodness they were awful
Their film- he did a lot with very little, very small, very slow

Never said Mark wasn't a good coach.  Only coached against him once "head to head" (2001) & we won 28-7.  He had talent THEN (at Armstrong).  He gave us "bulletin-board material" by mentioning in the paper that he ran an offense that was "unstoppable". 

 At Louisa he was LOADED with talent by 2006 (I don't think Mark would deny this).  He ran more detached people than I have seen in your DVD's.  Also based almost everything on "spinners".  I have a "write-up" of his offense.

I did think the first part of your book was very good (until you get to the X's & O's).  I told you as much in an email (PM).

Best wishes for continued success.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 01:43:53 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline Michael

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #146 on: June 11, 2014, 01:43:42 PM »
Bill,
   I coach Pop Warner and have won 2 Pop Warner national titles running his system(we do run other stuff but Dave's system was our base in 2008 and 09 when we went a combined 32-1 those seasons with 1 title).  His claims to the success of his system are legit. I can say that, at least imo, what Dave offers to the youth coach is a system where the teaching of football, to include how to's of the basics, installation process, practice plans and management(this is maybe the worst part of the average youth football team - poorly ran practices) a complete playbook with adjustments and multiple formations, help with scouting, play calling etc. The new coach could use his system and be able to survive. It is not necessarily his specific scheme(which is solid imho) but more the other stuff which actually make up the meat and potatoes of his system. The best tool in Dave's system is his practice methodology. Probably not earth shattering stuff but again, that is the area where most youth coaches need the most help imho.

For those who are specifically wondering how to stop the UBSW, maybe someone should start a thread in General Defense about defending the UBSW.
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #147 on: June 11, 2014, 01:45:54 PM »
DC

I know you couldn't answer any replies yesterday because we were talking as you drove to Omaha. Being Multiple on Defense doesn't mean being complicated, nor changing concepts. If you play contain you always play contain, if you are a spill & kill, then always spill & kill. Using my rule of 3, grouping the DT's & ILB's, & the OLB's & DE's that gives 9 possible looks without changing technique or fits & fills.

I agree with Mike, you would successful whatever offense you coached. It just so happens you have perfected your UBSW. Whenever I talk about UBSW I either hear your name or Rick Darlington's.

Joe
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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #148 on: June 11, 2014, 01:50:48 PM »
Joe,

Yep I was talking to you on the phone as I was running out the door

Thanks, appreciated

SW fits what our specific situation and mission requires

Been running it so long- we have an answer for everything, MORE IMPORTANTLY we have a methodology for recognizing it and then making the right play call or adjustments. We don't do the AHH we could have done that after watching the game on film. I would like to think- Just like how you run your stuff.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #149 on: June 11, 2014, 01:51:26 PM »

They NEVER STOPPED WINNING
Not so fast Bill,
Looks like Powhatan stopped winning the last 2 years which coincided when you stopped posting their scores and the 1 year they lost to at least 1 SW team:
http://www.maxpreps.com/local/team/records/year_by_year_results.aspx?gendersport=boys,football&schoolid=cd41ce52-ef1c-4296-84ee-9a25dbc387cd

No doubt a team that has done well in the past

If you check closely you will find that despite being "down" the last 2 seasons Powhatan made it to the VHSL Div. 4 State Playoffs BOTH years.  Louisa's program has never been on a par with Powhatan (ONLY in 2006 did they advance one notch higher in the playoffs).  Louisa runs so much crap on offense - you rarely see a UBSW.

Check the writeup on Jim Woodson (any coach on this site would hope to do as well, and on THAT level):  ATTACHED:
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 01:55:30 PM by billmountjoy »
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