Author Topic: Defending the UBSW Offense  (Read 158378 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline angalton

  • Gold
  • Posts: 2570
  • Total likes: 303
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Killer Bee
  • Offense: Wishbone
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #240 on: June 12, 2014, 03:32:09 PM »
That reminds when we played in a tournament during thanksgiving. It was 30 degrees and raining/sleeting with strongish wind. It was coooooold. At halftime we were up 15-0, our boys stayed outside doing Cals and run through, while the other team took the kids inside to warm up. 5 minutes into the third quarter, they forfeited. Right after we got our trophies the kids started crying about be cold and wanting to go. I think they were so hyped up about playing for championship, they forgot it was cold until the adrenaline wore off. Plus we only had 12 kids there, so some didn't want no part of the weather either. I was fine, I dressed for the occasion. ;D
The greatest accomplishment is not in never failing, but in rising again after you fail.

Offline davecisar

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 9078
  • Total likes: 854
    • Winning Youth Football Coaching Site
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Wide Tackle 6
  • Offense: Single Wing
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #241 on: June 12, 2014, 03:34:33 PM »
No matter the weather
I ALWAYS tell my kids it's to their advantage with a HUGE smile and make up some type of well thought of excuse as to why

Yeah guys we are SO LUCKY it's like this, God must be smiling down upon us  ;D

When we have really cold games- I can definitely empathize with Mike M-  But I rarely wear a jacket, no gloves, just the ski wrap around the ears- I cant seem to get past that. But underneath it all- Im in thermos- on top several layers. The sweatshirt is bulky.

Its up to you to convince the kids that the weather isn't any big deal and I HATE cold weather
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 9078
  • Total likes: 854
    • Winning Youth Football Coaching Site
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Wide Tackle 6
  • Offense: Single Wing
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #242 on: June 12, 2014, 03:40:23 PM »
OK Dave :)Oh but do I agree with that and I wish it would apply to us Canadian coaches.

I have met some very good Canadian coaches at clinics and I always ask the same question. How do you get your hand on a Canadian football playbook (O or D) ?
Same answer every time with a little head shake: You make your own...

So while I would love to follow a US playbook, when I look at what great coaches are doing around here, I must say I need to work a bit more than your average coach to get to the same point.

Too bad really, even if I believe in the end it will have forced me to learn more, so that can't be all that bad.

Thanks for what you put in there and your blog by the way. That's what got me started (and like I said in not such a nice way, still refer to for many things such as philosophy, practice pace and player evaluation ;)
Luc

Coach

Thanks, glad it helped
I would recommend you reach out to Lawrence Smith- with the Graham Grizzlies in Chilliwack BC (Vancouver)
They won a Provincial Championship with my system 14-1 - the same year they came to play us in Lincoln. Their only loss was to us

In Coach Smiths first year at the High SChool (first year of football there) they won a Provincial Championship
They lost their first 2-3 games running spread, he fired the OC went SW and won out

Really enjoyed playing against them
I cliniced them in Seattle and then in Chilliwack BC
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 9078
  • Total likes: 854
    • Winning Youth Football Coaching Site
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Wide Tackle 6
  • Offense: Single Wing
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #243 on: June 12, 2014, 03:51:18 PM »
Here is a good example of a Staff abusing Dave's Program but still able to win games vs inexperienced DC's....which I think the UBSW does really well regardless of what flavor.

This team had won 4 games in a row before they played us. Mahonz Jr had scouted them.  No pulling....crappy wedge....sometimes balanced....sometimes unbalanced...no real series based play calling. This was also a rookie team. 

We knew a few of their coaches. We used to coach in their Org. Mahonz Jr designed their uniforms when he was the FB Dictator of that Org. Afterwards I asked them what version of the SW they ran and they said Dave Cisar. I felt like calling Dave and turning them in.

The Header wouldn't shake hands after the game and left in a huff.

http://youtu.be/Xjl94YQtJBM

You have them outnumbered to the Beast side what is it 8 to 5? Wow
I see why you ran so much of that instead of your base offense against these guys
Not shaking hands- how lame- will have to revoke their cards ;D
Doing a lot of what I tell teams not to do- that includes flipping
It works against poorly coached teams you will beat anyways- not so much against better teams- takes away practice time- confidence/aggression
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 9078
  • Total likes: 854
    • Winning Youth Football Coaching Site
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Wide Tackle 6
  • Offense: Single Wing
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #244 on: June 12, 2014, 03:57:34 PM »
Here is the hi-lite film of that playoff team in this thread beating us in the Regular Season using Dave's System.

I was surprised Mahonz Jr didn't get flagged for being on the field. The White Hat was a real character and knew we were having a really bad day.

They almost rescheduled this game. It started about 4 hours late and it was mega hot and on turf. Both games before ours had the ambulance show up. Both teams were fried well before KO. A bunch of 3rd graders sitting around doing nothing forever never works. They could have scored 50 on us we were so bad but they were off as well and wearing all black. 

Its why that Playoff Game was so huge for both teams.

http://youtu.be/1dSG4M66l4o

Your team improved, they weren't as fundamentally sound in this game- looked pretty ragged compared to later
The later game- the SW team added a whole bunch of plays you didn't see in game 1
Still no passing
Do you play on the small field all year long or just the early games?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 04:15:16 PM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24264
  • Total likes: 2547
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 8 & Under
  • Defense: 3-5-3
  • Offense: Wing T
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #245 on: June 12, 2014, 04:16:25 PM »
Your team improved, they weren't as fundamentally sound in this game- looked pretty ragged compared to later
Do you play on the small field all year long or just the early games?

Dave

The Super Smurfs play on 60x40 yard fields for the entire season. The older kids move to the 100 yard fields and get one more Ref.
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24264
  • Total likes: 2547
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 8 & Under
  • Defense: 3-5-3
  • Offense: Wing T
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #246 on: June 12, 2014, 04:25:56 PM »
You have them outnumbered to the Beast side what is it 8 to 5? Wow
I see why you ran so much of that instead of your base offense against these guys
Not shaking hands- how lame- will have to revoke their cards ;D
Doing a lot of what I tell teams not to do- that includes flipping
It works against poorly coached teams you will beat anyways- not so much against better teams- takes away practice time- confidence/aggression

Dave

Shocking isnt it. How can an "UBSW" Team...and I use that term loosely....not understand how to Defend an UBSW?

That's all the Beast is...the simplest form of the UBSW and how I get my ya-ya's out because I LOVE the UBSW.

In our Regular Offense you might have picked up on something....isnt that the DCWT in its simplest form?...but wait a second...isnt that a SW BB I see in many of those Formations? Well....yes it is!

Im a SW dabbleraholic and cant stop.  :P
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 04:32:56 PM by mahonz »
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24264
  • Total likes: 2547
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 8 & Under
  • Defense: 3-5-3
  • Offense: Wing T
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #247 on: June 12, 2014, 04:43:34 PM »
The reason I am addicted to the UBSW BB position is his lines of force for blocking edge defenders is perfect and far superior than the traditional WB positions and he is pretty much invisible to the Defense....even with a QB under center.

I used the BB position a TON at the semi pro levels when we went Gun Empty. We ran DS to the BB and shovel and flat passes  to him. It really messed with the traditional 30 and 40 front upper level D's we played against. It made them go into tweener weird Coverage's...meaning.... who has that guy sniffing the OLM! 

http://youtu.be/CW0vymyI-gU
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 04:45:18 PM by mahonz »
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline davecisar

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 9078
  • Total likes: 854
    • Winning Youth Football Coaching Site
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Wide Tackle 6
  • Offense: Single Wing
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #248 on: June 12, 2014, 05:21:12 PM »
The reason I am addicted to the UBSW BB position is his lines of force for blocking edge defenders is perfect and far superior than the traditional WB positions and he is pretty much invisible to the Defense....even with a QB under center.

I used the BB position a TON at the semi pro levels when we went Gun Empty. We ran DS to the BB and shovel and flat passes  to him. It really messed with the traditional 30 and 40 front upper level D's we played against. It made them go into tweener weird Coverage's...meaning.... who has that guy sniffing the OLM! 

http://youtu.be/CW0vymyI-gU

Mike

IF I was ever FORCED to run under center "I" formation
Sometimes I would put a FB right on the QBs behind or as a sniffer to one side or the other like the DW fellas- for many of the very reasons you suggested
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 9078
  • Total likes: 854
    • Winning Youth Football Coaching Site
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Wide Tackle 6
  • Offense: Single Wing
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #249 on: June 12, 2014, 05:23:48 PM »
Dave

Shocking isnt it. How can an "UBSW" Team...and I use that term loosely....not understand how to Defend an UBSW?

That's all the Beast is...the simplest form of the UBSW and how I get my ya-ya's out because I LOVE the UBSW.

In our Regular Offense you might have picked up on something....isnt that the DCWT in its simplest form?...but wait a second...isnt that a SW BB I see in many of those Formations? Well....yes it is!

Im a SW dabbleraholic and cant stop.  :P

YEs, shocking to say the least and they scouted you?
Wow
We don't do everything well, but alignment we are usually perfect on- especially against unbalanced
Yes I picked up on the tight sniffer

You run the beast blast more often than I run 16 power
Welcome to the macro club  ;D
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline HCScott

  • Copper
  • Posts: 363
  • Total likes: 38
  • Coaching: 14 & Under
  • Defense: 5-3
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #250 on: June 12, 2014, 05:49:13 PM »
If you faced your own team, hypothetically, how would you defend them?


We play a wide tackle 6 and I'm not going to change that fact but I would shift as Bill advocates. If we aren't stiff at the line of scrimmage I might over shift, blitz the corner and invite the pass by bringing the safety up in run support. Other then that doing much more probably does more damage the good.
I believe it takes an overall game plan.

#1 I wouldn't change whatever I've been doing throughout the season on defense. Tackle, tackle, tackle!
Force mistakes, turnovers and penalties are equalizers. Do not give up the big play.

#2 I want to play ball control on offense and limit the amount of possessions permitted to the opposition.

3# I'm gonna take away the edges, which means I'm gonna give the wedge and pass and play the percentages that my opponent will not stick with the wedge and will make mistakes in the passing game with incompletions and turnovers.
"The quarterback must go down and he must go down hard"

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

  • Gold
  • Posts: 4611
  • Total likes: 73
  • Read Only Account. Please no PM's or Emails
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Undecided
  • Offense: Undecided
  • Title: Retired
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #251 on: June 12, 2014, 06:11:24 PM »

We play a wide tackle 6 and I'm not going to change that fact but I would shift as Bill advocates. If we aren't stiff at the line of scrimmage I might over shift, blitz the corner and invite the pass by bringing the safety up in run support. Other then that doing much more probably does more damage the good.
I believe it takes an overall game plan.

#1 I wouldn't change whatever I've been doing throughout the season on defense. Tackle, tackle, tackle!
Force mistakes, turnovers and penalties are equalizers. Do not give up the big play.

#2 I want to play ball control on offense and limit the amount of possessions permitted to the opposition.

3# I'm gonna take away the edges, which means I'm gonna give the wedge and pass and play the percentages that my opponent will not stick with the wedge and will make mistakes in the passing game with incompletions and turnovers.


You are the only coach to mention the IMPORTANCE of "horizontal placement" of the ball in defending the UBSW.  You are a step ahead of any of the other "posters" on the topic:

Sine the ball is WITHIN 5 yds. of the hash 80% of the - your defense MUST be able to cope with (& they present DIFFERENT problems):
1.  Long side of UBSW into the BOUNDARY (DON'T overshift).
2.  Long side of UBSW into the field (DO overshift)
3.  You must NOT get "outnumbered" to EITHER side of the middle man on O-Line (G).

Any coach plays against an UBSW should DEFINITELY buy Bud Wilkinson's book (with TONS of stuff vs. UBSW).  Best book EVER on the topic.  Bud beat the UBSW like a poor step-child.  Look on AMAZON.COM

Modern Defensive Football. by Gomer Jones and Charles (Bud) Wilkinson (1957)



« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 06:25:35 PM by billmountjoy »
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com

Offline PSLCOACHROB

  • Administrator
  • Diamond
  • Posts: 12511
  • Total likes: 2440
  • Coaching: 14 & Under
  • Defense: 5-3
  • Offense: Multiple
  • Title: Retired
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #252 on: June 12, 2014, 06:55:59 PM »
Bill,
   In case you forgot, Coach Wilkinson beat just about everybody and every thing like a red headed step child.  ;)
PS I know you didn't forget and add #68 to your excuses list -  "we are not coached by Bud Wilkinson".
PSS Serious question here. I know you firmly believe in the old adage that players win games not schemes. Could it be that some of those Wilkinson teams just had better players? Not trying to stir the pot here just an honest curiosity.

Offline davecisar

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 9078
  • Total likes: 854
    • Winning Youth Football Coaching Site
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Wide Tackle 6
  • Offense: Single Wing
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #253 on: June 12, 2014, 07:08:45 PM »
Bill,
   In case you forgot, Coach Wilkinson beat just about everybody and every thing like a red headed step child.  ;)
PS I know you didn't forget and add #68 to your excuses list -  "we are not coached by Bud Wilkinson".
PSS Serious question here. I know you firmly believe in the old adage that players win games not schemes. Could it be that some of those Wilkinson teams just had better players? Not trying to stir the pot here just an honest curiosity.

Bud was 11-21 in the NFL
His approach didn't work so well there

He also got OU put on probation for recruiting violations

He had a great run at OU while he was there $$
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline PSLCOACHROB

  • Administrator
  • Diamond
  • Posts: 12511
  • Total likes: 2440
  • Coaching: 14 & Under
  • Defense: 5-3
  • Offense: Multiple
  • Title: Retired
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #254 on: June 12, 2014, 07:24:29 PM »
Dave,
   I know you are a huge NU fan so I guess you are not a big Wilkinson fan. But you kinda get at what I am asking. Was it scheme or was it that OU just had better players? I ask because I don't know not to be a smart ass. I imagine, as is always the case, it was both.
   Also, did the sw fade because of the wt6 or because of the success of the T? Again, asking because I don't know. Probably a little of both. I am sure that eventually the great sw minds would of figured out the wt6 but when the T and wishbone came along what was the point. In today's game somebody will figure out the spread option stuff and all the pass happy offenses will start to go back to pounding the ball. It is already happening. Just look at Seattle.