Author Topic: Defending the UBSW Offense  (Read 158377 times)

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Offline belebuch

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #285 on: June 13, 2014, 12:21:41 PM »
Wow!! A thread on how to stop the UBSW goes 19 pages and dang near 300 posts???? And you guys said it was easy  8)

Lol

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #286 on: June 13, 2014, 12:29:44 PM »
Wow!! A thread on how to stop the UBSW goes 19 pages and dang near 300 posts???? And you guys said it was easy  8)

Lol

D

Football is hard. If it was easy this Forum wouldn't exist.  ;)
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #287 on: June 13, 2014, 12:37:47 PM »
Wow!! A thread on how to stop the UBSW goes 19 pages and dang near 300 posts???? And you guys said it was easy  8)

Lol


It IS easy to PLAN FOR (PERSONNEL = the important thing).    Just some people trying to make it difficult (nonsensically so).  Hate to see what they would do if they faced the following, all of which I find more difficult to deal with, & it would probably require another 300 posts EACH:

1.  Defense of Split-T
2.  Defense of Winged-T
3.  Defense of "I" (Power-I, Slot-I, Pro-I, etc.)
4.  Defense of Split-Back Veer
5.  Defense of Wishbone (& it's off-shoot Flexbone)
6.  Defense of Pro-Style Offense (2 to 3 WR's)
7.  Defense of Spreads with 4 or more WR's  (including Run & Shoot, Air Raid, & Zone-Read/option, ETC.)

The UBSW "riddle" was solved by 1945.  MAYBE if we reach 1,000 posts on this topic people will tire of this folly!

« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 12:44:56 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline JrTitan

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #288 on: June 13, 2014, 12:49:47 PM »
Honestly I found the 60 fronts a rather easy D to run off tackle against. We saw this front a lot at the 2nd and 3rd grade levels.

It would seem to me you could run Power 16 without much trouble if you are executing. Isn't the WT6 designed to stop sweep?...so don't sweep.

Double the play side DT...kick out the play side DE...lead to Sam = 4 yards.

I think that's because too many 60 front coaches don't widen the tackle to a 6 or 7 technique.  You just can't let the TE block down on the tackle or ILB.  This is how is off-tackle would look against a split 4-4 (same as WT6).  Split 4-4 and WT6 strong vs. off tackle and sweep.





Weak Side End

Flow away:  Check counter and trail as deep as the deepest back looking for reverse.

Rover

Flow away:  cross key far back and BB for counter/trap.  No counter, cushion back through hook zone looking for throw back before getting into wide pursuit looking for cutback.

Weak Corner

Flow away and TE reaching inside:  Cushion back to back two-thirds.  Deep cut off pursuit through middle third in case play breaks

Will
 
Flow away: Cross key FB to WB looking for trap and counter.  No counter: secure backside side A gap and pursue inside out.  If window opens between RG and IT, take it if you can make it.

Nose and Tackle

Fingertip alignment should be aligned head up to inside.  Get a good get off play wedge and trap.   Power step with near foot, snap hands from the ground to the target, and explode hips.  Keep pressure on offensive blocker until you locate the ball carrier.  Do not spin out of down blocks.  If you have penetrated and beaten the down blocks head across the line of scrimmage (i.e., his head is on your hip or back) work down the heel line otherwise cross his face.  Play cutback

Mike

Flow at you: mirror FB flow and secure B to C gap.  Take on any down block by the wing with inside shoulder.  Play over the top.

Sam

Flow at you:  TE base blocks and near back attacks defensive end: trap the TE on the line of scrimmage and control C gap, squeezes the end over to D gap staying square, keeping inside arm free, controlling C gap and locate ball work across the ends face to the outside – do not go around the block. Do not allow inside release of the TE.

Strong End

Align outside shoulder of wing.  Take read step with inside foot.  Jam the inside release of the wing keeping off the Mike linebacker.  Cannot allow himself to be reached by the wing or give the wing a fast outside release.  Inside release of the wing: look inside for kick-out block.  Attacks all kick out blocks by attacking the block with the near shoulder while keeping shoulders square and squeezing the line of scrimmage.  Keep outside leverage (outside leg and arm free) and look for the play to bounce outside.  If the play bounces outside, keep runner on inside shoulder, work outside, and force back inside.  If he looses contain, he should cushion back to a correct intercepting angle.  Do not go around the block

Strong Corner

Base block by TE and inside release of wing read run.  Secondary contain - stay outside and close the play from outside in.  Do not come up inside or  over the line of scrimmage.  Stay outside in case the play bounces.

Free Safety

Sit and bounce for recognition of the play and back field flow.  Read the release of the WB/TE, backfield action, and ball level for run-pass read.   Run to: work through TE/WB to the alley to make sure it is not a play action pass.  If TE/WB blocks down, fill the alley fitting inside strong end.  He is unaccounted for and must be active in the run game. 


I think the UBSW would adjust to one hole inside and try to kick the 6/7 technique.

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Offline angalton

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #289 on: June 13, 2014, 01:00:34 PM »

The 3-3 Stack evolved OUT of a 5-2 (AKA: 3-4).  Vs. the UBSW play a 5-2 Monster (which IS an "Overshifted-6").
I gotcha. It seems that I could slide my backer on the strong side head up on the tight end and olb's to defensive ends and be in wt6 with no shifting for the line. Probably a simple teach, with a week to prepare. Hmmmm
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #290 on: June 13, 2014, 01:08:28 PM »
I think that's because too many 60 front coaches don't widen the tackle to a 6 or 7 technique.  You just can't let the TE block down on the tackle or ILB.  This is how is off-tackle would look against a split 4-4 (same as WT6).  Split 4-4 and WT6 strong vs. off tackle and sweep.





Weak Side End

Flow away:  Check counter and trail as deep as the deepest back looking for reverse.

Rover

Flow away:  cross key far back and BB for counter/trap.  No counter, cushion back through hook zone looking for throw back before getting into wide pursuit looking for cutback.

Weak Corner

Flow away and TE reaching inside:  Cushion back to back two-thirds.  Deep cut off pursuit through middle third in case play breaks

Will
 
Flow away: Cross key FB to WB looking for trap and counter.  No counter: secure backside side A gap and pursue inside out.  If window opens between RG and IT, take it if you can make it.

Nose and Tackle

Fingertip alignment should be aligned head up to inside.  Get a good get off play wedge and trap.   Power step with near foot, snap hands from the ground to the target, and explode hips.  Keep pressure on offensive blocker until you locate the ball carrier.  Do not spin out of down blocks.  If you have penetrated and beaten the down blocks head across the line of scrimmage (i.e., his head is on your hip or back) work down the heel line otherwise cross his face.  Play cutback

Mike

Flow at you: mirror FB flow and secure B to C gap.  Take on any down block by the wing with inside shoulder.  Play over the top.

Sam

Flow at you:  TE base blocks and near back attacks defensive end: trap the TE on the line of scrimmage and control C gap, squeezes the end over to D gap staying square, keeping inside arm free, controlling C gap and locate ball work across the ends face to the outside – do not go around the block. Do not allow inside release of the TE.

Strong End

Align outside shoulder of wing.  Take read step with inside foot.  Jam the inside release of the wing keeping off the Mike linebacker.  Cannot allow himself to be reached by the wing or give the wing a fast outside release.  Inside release of the wing: look inside for kick-out block.  Attacks all kick out blocks by attacking the block with the near shoulder while keeping shoulders square and squeezing the line of scrimmage.  Keep outside leverage (outside leg and arm free) and look for the play to bounce outside.  If the play bounces outside, keep runner on inside shoulder, work outside, and force back inside.  If he looses contain, he should cushion back to a correct intercepting angle.  Do not go around the block

Strong Corner

Base block by TE and inside release of wing read run.  Secondary contain - stay outside and close the play from outside in.  Do not come up inside or  over the line of scrimmage.  Stay outside in case the play bounces.

Free Safety

Sit and bounce for recognition of the play and back field flow.  Read the release of the WB/TE, backfield action, and ball level for run-pass read.   Run to: work through TE/WB to the alley to make sure it is not a play action pass.  If TE/WB blocks down, fill the alley fitting inside strong end.  He is unaccounted for and must be active in the run game. 


I think the UBSW would adjust to one hole inside and try to kick the 6/7 technique.

Hey guys - keep it going (let's make it to 1,000 posts) .

The WT-6 was used vs. the WING (LONGSIDE) into the boundary.  No great WT-6 will play a 7 vs. SW.  They play a 6 tech to draw the block of your WB so he can't get inside on LBer.

The Over-Shifted 6 was used vs. WING (LONGSIDE) to open field.  Running OT vs. the Over-shifted WT-6  is damned near IMPOSSIBLE unless you are that much BETTER than we are.  I have film of this defense completely shutting down the BEST SW teams:  NOTE:  We may also SLANT the front INTO (or away from) the WB if needed (highly effective).

“OVERSHIFTED SIX”  (VS. SINGLE WING)



---------------------  F--T
-----------W------B
---------------E-T-G-G-C-T-E
---------E---T—G----G----T-E
-------------------B-----B
----------C----------------------C
--------------------S


LEFT END:  Exactly the same as “Wide Six”.


LEFT TACKLE:  Line up just outside the offensive end, facing slightly to the inside.  Watch the end-wingback combination.  As the ball is snapped, charge hard at the offensive end.  Never let the end block you in alone.  As you charge the end, be conscious of the wingback.   (1)  If he is double teaming on you, be sure you can recover off the end and hit the wingback with a good forearm or hand shiver while working to the outside.  If the wingback blocks you in, you have not failed in your assignment.  However, you should make every effort to fight through the pressure of his block to the outside.   (2)  If the end blocks to the inside on your Guard, work fast down the line of scrimmage to the inside.  Do not get penetration if the end makes this movement.  In all probability, the blocking back or a lineman will trap you.   (3)  If the ball goes away from you, get depth immediately until you are as deep as the ball.  Maintain outside leverage against reverses.


LEFT GUARD:  Line up shading the outside of the offensive tackle.  As the ball is snapped, charge hard into the tackle, being sure that he cannot block you in alone.  As you make the charge, use your usual peripheral vision in keying the three offensive linemen in your immediate area.  If either the end or the outside guard is driving at you, adjust your charge to meet the pressure of the block.  Play the ball.
Note:  You must be conscious of the fact  that the only likely trap against you will be from the inside.  If you charge across the line of scrimmage, hit the guard opposite you, and get past him too easily, you should suspect that a trap play is being run.  When this happens, turn your head quickly to the inside and drive back for the line of scrimmage.  Try to keep your head inside the trap blocker, who, in this instance, will either be the short side tackle, or the inside guard playing next to the center.


RIGHT GUARD:  Line up head up with the middle lineman.  Since this formation is usually played from an unbalanced line you will be opposite the inside guard.  Charge straight into the inside guard, control your charge as well as possible, but hit with enough strength to drive the guard back.  Use your peripheral vision; watch the tackle, the guards, and the center.  React to these three men as you normally would in a regular “3 on 1” drill.  If you penetrate too easily you should suspect a trap in the making.  Traps on you will almost always come from your inside (your left).  If you feel a trap in the making, do not penetrate further.  Turn your head to the inside and move back toward the line of scrimmage.  NOTE:  If your guard is a frequent PULLER - get in his hip pocket & he will take you RIGHT to the P.O.A.


RIGHT TACKLE:  Line up on the offensive tackle shading him to the outside.  Be positive that he cannot block you in alone.  Watch the center, the tackle, and the end.  Key these three men exactly as you would in on regular “3 on 1” drill.  If you get penetration too easily, suspect a trap.  The trap will always come from the inside.  If you feel a trap coming, do not penetrate into the backfield.  Turn your head along the line of scrimmage, and keep your head between the trap blocker and the course of the ball.


RIGHT END:  Line up on the outside shoulder of the offensive end.  Charge the end and hit him, making every effort to keep him on the line of scrimmage.  React to the end’s block.  If the end is attempting to go downfield, hit him and hold him up.  As soon as he gets away from you, move in, reacting normally to the ball with your old rule of “Ball come, I come;  ball go, I go”.  You must remember that the end should never be allowed to get off the line of scrimmage TO YOUR OUTSIDE.  If he is able to do this, he will be able to hook you in.  Your basic assignment is never to be blocked in by the offensive end.
     If the end blocks in on your tackle, move down the line of scrimmage with him, trying to knock him off the block.  Stay shallow so that you cannot be blocked out by linemen, or the blocking back coming your way on a reverse.
     If the ball is going away from you, deepen as soon as you lose control of the end.  When you are as deep as the ball, pursue it, maintaining leverage on the play.


LEFT LINEBACKER:  Line up 2 ½ yards deep head up with the outside guard.  React to the guard.  If the guard pulls either way, go with him.  If  the guard makes an aggressive block to either side, start to fill the hole.  Be conscious of the linemen on either side of the guard.  If either of these men pulls in either direction, do not continue through the hole.  Move with them.  If neither of them pulls, continue to fill the gap.  The ball will be coming into your area.  If the guard makes a pass-protection block, drop quickly to your hook zone.


RIGHT LINEBACKER:  Line up 2 ½ deep shading the short side of the offensive center.  React to the offensive center.  If the center pulls in either direction, go with him.  If the center blocks aggressively to the right or to the left, come up to fill the hole.  Be conscious of the offensive linemen on either side of the center.  If neither of these men has pulled, continue to shoot through the gap.  If either of them has pulled, do not continue through the gap.  Adjust, play slowly, find the ball, and react on your normal angle of pursuit.  If the center makes a pass-protection block, drop back and cover your normal hook zone.




« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 01:19:38 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #291 on: June 13, 2014, 01:26:45 PM »
I think that's because too many 60 front coaches don't widen the tackle to a 6 or 7 technique.  You just can't let the TE block down on the tackle or ILB.  This is how is off-tackle would look against a split 4-4 (same as WT6).  Split 4-4 and WT6 strong vs. off tackle and sweep.





Weak Side End

Flow away:  Check counter and trail as deep as the deepest back looking for reverse.

Rover

Flow away:  cross key far back and BB for counter/trap.  No counter, cushion back through hook zone looking for throw back before getting into wide pursuit looking for cutback.

Weak Corner

Flow away and TE reaching inside:  Cushion back to back two-thirds.  Deep cut off pursuit through middle third in case play breaks

Will
 
Flow away: Cross key FB to WB looking for trap and counter.  No counter: secure backside side A gap and pursue inside out.  If window opens between RG and IT, take it if you can make it.

Nose and Tackle

Fingertip alignment should be aligned head up to inside.  Get a good get off play wedge and trap.   Power step with near foot, snap hands from the ground to the target, and explode hips.  Keep pressure on offensive blocker until you locate the ball carrier.  Do not spin out of down blocks.  If you have penetrated and beaten the down blocks head across the line of scrimmage (i.e., his head is on your hip or back) work down the heel line otherwise cross his face.  Play cutback

Mike

Flow at you: mirror FB flow and secure B to C gap.  Take on any down block by the wing with inside shoulder.  Play over the top.

Sam

Flow at you:  TE base blocks and near back attacks defensive end: trap the TE on the line of scrimmage and control C gap, squeezes the end over to D gap staying square, keeping inside arm free, controlling C gap and locate ball work across the ends face to the outside – do not go around the block. Do not allow inside release of the TE.

Strong End

Align outside shoulder of wing.  Take read step with inside foot.  Jam the inside release of the wing keeping off the Mike linebacker.  Cannot allow himself to be reached by the wing or give the wing a fast outside release.  Inside release of the wing: look inside for kick-out block.  Attacks all kick out blocks by attacking the block with the near shoulder while keeping shoulders square and squeezing the line of scrimmage.  Keep outside leverage (outside leg and arm free) and look for the play to bounce outside.  If the play bounces outside, keep runner on inside shoulder, work outside, and force back inside.  If he looses contain, he should cushion back to a correct intercepting angle.  Do not go around the block

Strong Corner

Base block by TE and inside release of wing read run.  Secondary contain - stay outside and close the play from outside in.  Do not come up inside or  over the line of scrimmage.  Stay outside in case the play bounces.

Free Safety

Sit and bounce for recognition of the play and back field flow.  Read the release of the WB/TE, backfield action, and ball level for run-pass read.   Run to: work through TE/WB to the alley to make sure it is not a play action pass.  If TE/WB blocks down, fill the alley fitting inside strong end.  He is unaccounted for and must be active in the run game. 


I think the UBSW would adjust to one hole inside and try to kick the 6/7 technique.

P

'bout time you chimed in !

Would a Nasty Y mess with a wide DT that wants to play as a 6 tech? Would he move with him?

It seems...and again my 60 front experience is limited... that an "invisible" edge defender really messes with the kids. Now they have to go hunting...so to speak.

Personally I am convinced the best base D vs any smoke and mirrors Offenses has more second level players and less first level players. They types of actions...DW XX, SW Spinner, Wing T Mesh, Split Back Cross Fires....want to suck you into their web. So don't get sucked in. 
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #292 on: June 13, 2014, 01:54:15 PM »
You gotta Star/Money that stuff.

M

Thanks for the explanation on this term. This is very much like training up a Spur in the 353 and makes perfect sense.

I don't really understand those that say do what you do every week regardless of the opponent. That line of thinking seems to only apply to the D...many are quite multiple on O so they can better attack all comers and maintain for the entire season. Why is that a no no on Defense? It seems if you suggest Cover 0 now this is some kinda Earth shattering change that will ruin your season....flex the DT's and for sure the Sun will now set in the East...pull the DE's off the LOS is no different than sending a man to the moon.

Besides...kids get bored with the same drills...now they can do some new ones.  :)
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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #293 on: June 13, 2014, 03:20:30 PM »
It is generally considered a no no because of the fear that the players will start to think instead of play. They don't have the same amount of reps at a new defense compared to your normal scheme. We change some but nothing is ever a complete shuffling of parts. Honestly Mike, if you can get it to work, it doesn't really matter. I think part of you being able to change your defense whole sale is that you have changed your offense so often that you have become very good at learing and teaching new things. I know we can install our 50 in about the same amount of time as we install our 4-4. Both are effective and if time permits we end up with both in place. With slight mods to each you can defend just about anything. The 4-4 can easily jump into a 6-2 and a 4-2-5 and the 50 is not to far from the over shifted 6. I don't think many defense are that far from each other. I do believe some offenses are light years away from others. So your line of thinking(imo) is probably not that big of a stretch as long as you sty within reason. When you start changing coverages is where I think you start to run into issues.

Offline DumCoach

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #294 on: June 13, 2014, 03:20:48 PM »

CHAPTER 3.  A third section for the "DEFENSE OF THE WEEK" = a "special" defense devoted to be the BEST way to handle whatever offense they were going to face THAT week.



Let's see.  That would be scheme, wouldn't it?
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #295 on: June 13, 2014, 03:57:14 PM »
So your line of thinking(imo) is probably not that big of a stretch as long as you sty within reason. When you start changing coverages is where I think you start to run into issues.

R

That is a good summary right there.
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Online Dimson

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #296 on: June 13, 2014, 03:59:06 PM »
Didn't you guys learn when WINGED made a thread just like this about a year ago? Same result. Dave takes it personal and the thread blows up.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #297 on: June 13, 2014, 04:01:42 PM »
Didn't you guys learn when WINGED made a thread just like this about a year ago? Same result. Dave takes it personal and the thread blows up.

D

I think we are past that now.
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #298 on: June 13, 2014, 04:02:18 PM »
Let's see.  That would be scheme, wouldn't it?

No!  LARGELY adjustments of our basic defenses to the offense we were going to see THAT week.

BOTH "personnel" (for example - where to put best people; do you flip personnel to get SPEED to open field; ETC) & "scheme" adjustments that ALL coaches have to make to be SOUND!  Like the "Bear" said:  "you haver a plan for EVERYTHING"!

We need to start THREADS on defensing ALL those systems.  All of these are FAR harder to "get ready" for than an UBSW (& seen more frequently in most areas)!

Defense of Winged-T
Defense of "I" (Power-I, Slot-I, Pro-I, etc.)
Defense of Split-Back VeerDefense of Wishbone (& it's off-shoot Flexbone)
Defense of Pro-Style Offense (2 to 3 WR's)
Defense of Spreads with 4 or more WR's  (including Run & Shoot, Air Raid, & Zone-Read/option, ETC.)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 04:09:28 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline HCScott

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #299 on: June 13, 2014, 04:16:17 PM »
M

Thanks for the explanation on this term. This is very much like training up a Spur in the 353 and makes perfect sense.

I don't really understand those that say do what you do every week regardless of the opponent. That line of thinking seems to only apply to the D...many are quite multiple on O so they can better attack all comers and maintain for the entire season. Why is that a no no on Defense? It seems if you suggest Cover 0 now this is some kinda Earth shattering change that will ruin your season....flex the DT's and for sure the Sun will now set in the East...pull the DE's off the LOS is no different than sending a man to the moon.

Besides...kids get bored with the same drills...now they can do some new ones.  :)

I know I said I don't make changes for particular team, but we do run an odd front, 5-3 and mix in an assortment of blitzes, as we do with the WT6.

WT6 works best for us to get everybody playing time but we've had great success in the 5-3 when we had quality players at every position, especially LBs.

It has more to do with the players I have each year as to what we run the most and how many defenses we can play. 
"The quarterback must go down and he must go down hard"