Author Topic: Defending the UBSW Offense  (Read 158436 times)

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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2014, 02:52:40 PM »
Mike,
   Dan and his staff are very good friends with Jeff Miret. I know them as well but not as closely as Jeff does. I don't like coaching against friends especially when it is a championship game as that one was(our conference championship). The kids were super excited and the whole day was a blast. When our kids got burned on defense they would just slap themselves on the forehead because they knew better.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2014, 03:01:45 PM »


BTW we quit running that Burst formation thing in about 2010- so they must have a really old playbook


Dave

One of our players....his Uncle runs that Program. Si I have talked to him directly a few times.

He hooked up with you at one of the Denver Clinics you did....maybe Glazier...maybe a WYF Clinic? Im thinking this was during the 2010 off season but I cant say for sure...maybe earlier. His Org joined our League in 2011 and ran your systems then.  He installed your "Program" into his Program to the letter....with some minor latitudes given to each coach.

You'd have to assume some coaches that implemented your system have not followed it from A to Z verbatim. There are a couple of minor things I would change.

I watched one of their older teams play last season. Wow. Very smooth. Orgs that join our League typically struggle for a few Seasons. Seems they have not. They do a fundraiser and take all of their teams to the Vegas Nationals every Thanksgiving too. Hard working bunch for sure.

You dont need to call out each play. Last time I showed you this you complimented me on how aggressive our D was and well we played....now you are dogging on one of your own Customers. But I kinda expected this from you. Too bad really. This is not an attack on you....but you take things way too personally.

Maybe instead take this D and figure out how to best attack it. I'd be curious what you think. I have faced it and we got HAMMERED !

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Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2014, 03:08:33 PM »
Mike,
   Dan and his staff are very good friends with Jeff Miret. I know them as well but not as closely as Jeff does. I don't like coaching against friends especially when it is a championship game as that one was(our conference championship). The kids were super excited and the whole day was a blast. When our kids got burned on defense they would just slap themselves on the forehead because they knew better.

R

We played a very good friend...and still is....who ran the DC46 and the DCWT in a Championship Game.

It was a ton of fun because we eeked out the win somehow. I am a DC46 fan thru and thru and it was really tough facing our own Defense !...although at the time we were running the 353.  ???
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2014, 03:13:52 PM »
When someone doesn't do what is optimal- or says they are running my offense and they aren't- Im not supposed to say anything?
Less than 1/2 of those plays are in my playbook. We know what works and doesn't from doing this for 180+ games, but some want to stray. Straying by 1/2 the plays?

Plays #1,2,3 are mine- but they chose not to do what they were supposed to. On 16 Power why would you pull the RG when a LB is blitzing right over him? When he got there, there wouldn't be anyone to block anyways. No is the first "adjustment" we teach. Very basic.
#4 no clue- we don't run that formation- never have
#5 pass play- never seen it, never run it- bad play
#6 wedge play- weve never run it like that- they got 7 yards but I would never run it like that, no perimeter threats
#7 Spinner play- we don't run the mesh like that- they may have misrun something that is ours
#8 Never in our playbook- not sure what it is
#9- Never in our playbook
#10 Never in our playbook, looks like some type of split flow wham play
#11- Not sure, I don't think it's a Burst sweep- if it is, we don't run it that way, Not sure what it is

The no play is one of ours

Zero adjustments- none
I thought these guys used tags? Show me where they used one?

These are only 11 plays, but it looks like they didn't install a pass game.
Simple 14 Trap or 14 Power would have been a huge play or even a "level" call

The FS is very nice player- we would have put a level tag to him- he is a good tackler
They should have put him in conflict by running more pass plays
Looked like he was reading the QB- the Jump pass should have been there as wide as the CBs were playing and as tight as the LBS were playing
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 03:33:42 PM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2014, 03:44:46 PM »
When someone doesn't do what is optimal- or says they are running my offense and they aren't- Im not supposed to say anything?
Less than 1/2 of those plays are in my playbook. We knows what works and doesn't from doing this for 180+ games, but some want to stray.

Plays #1,2,3 are mine- but they chose not to do what they were supposed to. On 16 Power why would you pull the RG when a LB is blitzing right over him? When he got there, there wouldn't be anyone to block anyways. No is the first "adjustment" we teach. Very basic.
#4 no clue- we don't run that formation- never have
#5 pass play- never seen it, never run it- bad play
#6 wedge play- weve never run it like that- they got 7 yards but I would never run it like that, no perimeter threats
#7 Spinner play- we don't run the mesh like that- they may have misrun something that is ours
#8 Never in our playbook- not sure what it is
#9- Never in our playbook
#10 Never in our playbook, looks like some type of split flow wham play
#11- Not sure, I don't think it's a Burst sweep- if it is, we don't run it that way, Not sure what it is

The no play is one of ours

Zero adjustments- none
I thought these guys used tags? Show me where they used one?

These are only 11 plays, but it looks like they didn't install a pass game.
Simple 14 Trap or 14 Power would have been a huge play or even a "level" call

The FS is very nice player- we would have put a level tag to him- he is a good tackler
They should have put him in conflict by running more pass plays
Looked like he was reading the QB- the Jump pass should have been there as wide as the CBs were playing and as tight as the LBS were playing
Dave

They stopped pulling that G who was a really good player because of the NG and tilted short side DT that was terrorizing the Center. The LB'r was blitzing right inside the PT.

They also passed quite a bit as the game wore on....not very well I might add.  I only clipped out a few drives.

What did work for them is when they went into their Spread formation....Omaha?...War?...I cant remember what you call it. We struggled with that.

That FS is the most frustrating player on the team. Serious ADD. I had to take his gloves away from him because he wouldn't stop fiddling with them....during plays ! Great kid though....funny.

No need to take things so personal either. Call em and ask them what they are doing if you think they are straying too far from the plan. One thing is for sure....taps over the PT will really mess with the core plays. With GOD rules the PT and QT dont really know what to do. You need to go to GOOD rules. 

Taps vs any O is a handful....not just the SW.
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2014, 03:53:08 PM »
They have the materials- it's up to them if they choose to use them or not

11 plays and just 5 from my playbook

On the first play- the blitz came over the RG

The others was over the PT
Simple play call 14 power, 14 trap or level
No need to change the entire blocking scheme for 1 stunt
Just gash them by calling 1 play- simple enough

A LOT of guys are happy with 8-2 like these guys, more power to them
Especially if 8-2 is a huge improvement
Lots of guys would kill for 8-2
We show guys how to go to 12-0, its the next step in the journey  ;D
100% of it is in the materials- Single Wing 303 http://winningyouthfootball.com

The adjustments and tags come BEFORE you go to any Spread stuff- I didn't see any of those
I did see 6 plays out of 11 that I wouldn't use  :D- that's why they aren't in my playbook- no one that runs my system or had my playbook can ID those as plays of mine
Best of luck to them though
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2014, 04:09:32 PM »
They have the materials- it's up to them if they choose to use them or not

11 plays and just 5 from my playbook

On the first play- the blitz came over the RG

The others was over the PT
Simple play call 14 power, 14 trap or level
No need to change the entire blocking scheme for 1 stunt
Just gash them by calling 1 play- simple enough

A LOT of guys are happy with 8-2 like these guys, more power to them
Especially if 8-2 is a huge improvement
Lots of guys would kill for 8-2
We show guys how to go to 12-0, its the next step in the journey  ;D
100% of it is in the materials- Single Wing 303 http://winningyouthfootball.com

The adjustments and tags come BEFORE you go to any Spread stuff- I didn't see any of those
I did see 6 plays out of 11 that I wouldn't use  :D- that's why they aren't in my playbook- no one that runs my system or had my playbook can ID those as plays of mine
Best of luck to them though

Dave

No need to continue to pile on them. They rolled out the perfect season 2013....so it all worked out for them after all.  ::)   

So what time is your Radio show? I wanted to listen in.
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2014, 06:07:59 PM »
Not at all

If someone claims to "beat" your offense- when less than 1/2 the plays are in the playbook and they exclude some of the very basic things with zero adjustments- it needs to be pointed out. I could have swore you said they were using tags too- I didn't see any, maybe that was a different team.

Im sure if I beat a DCWT team and more than 1/2 the plays weren't in the manual- someone would point it out  ::)

It can get a little aggravating when you tell guys you HAVE to run this play- and we talk about it in the clinics
Same for adjustments- BEG them please guys you have to run this, listen up- this works
I can only preach and then it's up to them in the end
I ALWAYS talk about guys who score 30-40 pts every week but never go to page 2 of the playbook or Implementation instructions- and why that can hurt them if their goal is to win them all.


Im glad it worked out for them, seem like nice guys. I haven't seen them at any clinics for at least 4+ years.

Yesterday I got an e-mail from a guy- he went 6-2 year 1 right out of the box
Year 2 they went 5-3 and year 3 they went 4-4, with a bunch more of their stuff every year- he said this year back to the book

Rob Adams, the guy who won our Coach of the Year and beat the Saints head coach Sean Payton- Won them all year 1, year 2 close, then he varied some and went 7-3. In his interview with me, he said he went back to the basics and adjustments- got away from some of the other stuff he was trying to do- won them all and beat Payton.

Sometimes straying- going away from what is proven, doesn't work out so well in the end.

The interview is whenever he calls me-Im home
My guess its podcast- you can listen whenever you want to
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 06:17:17 PM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2014, 06:38:34 PM »
Dave



Gumby...who ran your O right out of the Book that same Season was on our sidelines calling their plays as they were happening.  :) the only thing they didn't do was go no huddle. They weren't quite ready for it. His words...not mine.



Last year at ages 8-9 with 18 rookies and 7 vets, only 1 had ever started-
We went no huddle right out of the blocks
I didn't introduce the wrist bands until the day before the first game
Simple stuff- but very important- so EASY to put in
We haven't huddled in 18 seasons all the way down to age 6
One of the simplest but most important things we do- for so many reasons- including wasting hours of practice time
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2014, 06:40:47 PM »
DC

Does it become frustrating to hear someone is running your offense & then watch them & wonder what they are doing?

Years ago I went to a clinic given by Mouse Davis. The clinic was to be all day on 1 concept. A player walks in with his coach, he was the rising SR QB for Oceanside HS (Jay Fielder). On his t-shirt was the very concept we were there to see, except different. Coach Davis went crazy, that's not how I do it & you want to stay for this clinic take that shirt off right now. He made someone get him a Generals t-shirt.

Joe
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Bill Walsh

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2014, 06:52:12 PM »
Joe,

1 play I get it, but more than 1/2 of the plays, I don't

It would be like you watching a zone team lead a play with 2 RBs and you think- OMG what are they thinking?
Or they don't run your Power play at all- when it's there for the taking or don't throw your best passing play instead, they throw something that has no chance at all

Yes, it does get aggravating some of the time
Satisfying when they do the basics well and a few adjustments and call the plays based on the manuals- aggravating when the answer is right there in front of them served like good pate on a silver platter- but some insist on eating rotted carp served on paper plates  ;D

Man this stuff has been stress tested to the limits with my teams and others- just trying to save them some time and problems
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2014, 06:57:46 PM »
Last year at ages 8-9 with 18 rookies and 7 vets, only 1 had ever started-
We went no huddle right out of the blocks
I didn't introduce the wrist bands until the day before the first game
Simple stuff- but very important- so EASY to put in
We haven't huddled in 18 seasons all the way down to age 6
One of the simplest but most important things we do- for so many reasons- including wasting hours of practice time

But you are Superman.
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2014, 07:07:29 PM »
Joe,

1 play I get it, but more than 1/2 of the plays, I don't

It would be like you watching a zone team lead a play with 2 RBs and you think- OMG what are they thinking?
Or they don't run your Power play at all- when it's there for the taking or don't throw your best passing play instead, they throw something that has no chance at all

Yes, it does get aggravating some of the time
Satisfying when they do the basics well and a few adjustments and call the plays based on the manuals- aggravating when the answer is right there in front of them served like good pate on a silver platter- but some insist on eating rotted carp served on paper plates  ;D

Man this stuff has been stress tested to the limits with my teams and others- just trying to save them some time and problems

Dave

We have two Wing T plays that are blocked Zone with two lead backs. Works great. Whats your point?




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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2014, 07:37:28 PM »
DC

The concept was the heart of Mouse's RnS. It angered him that someone would change it.

I know I have had guys at clinics try to run things only to be a disaster. I also know I am not married to any system, only the one that wins. We all know you can lead a horse to water but not make him drink. You have made your materials very accessible & have any easy system, but it still needs to be coached. One of the lessons I have learned is that many of the coaches we speak to just don't get it. The other is no matter well in detail you explain something, that doesn't mean a person learned it.

IMHO no matter what system you run, you have yo commit to that system. Doing anything 1/2 assed isn't the answer. It may work against poorly coached teams, but somewhere you meet a well coached team.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2014, 07:58:10 PM »
DC

The concept was the heart of Mouse's RnS. It angered him that someone would change it.



Joe

Why do you think that upset him? Isn't that how football progresses over the long haul at the upper levels?

The team in that clip Dave seems to be upset over has lost 3 games in 3 years and ran the table in 2013. Is it impossible to think they could have actually improved on Dave's Burst Series? According to Dave they were not running his systems....yet they were certainly inspired by Dave's systems for sure.

Im not sure why improvement on an idea is so hard to fathom so some?  Ego? Massive cant get my own head thru the door anymore ego?

Im glad Dave didn't invent the wheel. I fear we'd all be Fred Flintstoning it right now.  :P

The best coaches will forever realize one thing....there is ALWAYS a better way. Is Davis a good Coach? Hell no...I was a Denver Gold Season Ticket holder. I wanted to throw things at him.  >:(

I kid...Davis did a lot for the game...and so has Dave.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 08:16:58 PM by mahonz »
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