Author Topic: Defending the UBSW Offense  (Read 158402 times)

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Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #345 on: June 14, 2014, 05:07:00 PM »
I guess you'd probably be right about every well coached O being a riddle. The UBSW had definitely made a very legitimate and successful reappearance in the game of football (especially at the youth level thanks to coach Cisar), no denying that fact. Hell, I was watching a clip just today, of Florida running basically an UBSW in a 3rd and 1 situation.

There's not an offense out there that doesn't have it's pro's and it's con's, and despite some opinions, I truly believe that some offenses are more suitable than others w/r/t youth teams (and their coaches). It's going to be a HELLUVA lot easier to teach and run the UBSW to a small team of 8/9 year olds, than it would be to teach and run a four wide spread offense or flexbone triple option for instance. Am I right? I think that's just being realistic.

J

Agreed.

What I am trying to get through here is that the average Joe that coaches youth football...9 out of 10 times if he has to defend a SW team he will have NO CLUE what he is trying to defend. Its not on TV and since they dont know what it is they are defending they cant even google some dead guy to find out what to do about it.

Its the advantage UBSW coaches have right out of the gate IMHO. 
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #346 on: June 14, 2014, 05:09:49 PM »

I probably would have to have taken a lot of Antacids to make it through that!  I talk to Youth League coaches DAILY (MANY from THIS site).

I can be reached at 804-716-7038 (between 9 AM & 7 PM/EDT).


LOL...that is exactly what I was thinking....or...they would have all bolted right out the door.  :D

Bill...as you know...we youth coaches can be a frustrating group so thanks for putting up with us. Seriously. Thanks.  ;)
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #347 on: June 14, 2014, 05:16:14 PM »

LOL...that is exactly what I was thinking....or...they would have all bolted right out the door.  :D

Bill...as you know...we youth coaches can be a frustrating group so thanks for putting up with us. Seriously. Thanks.  ;)


Thanks, Mike - I appreciate that!

You have no IDEA of my capacity for putting up with "frustrating" people.  They DO generally "bolt right out the door".

I played 4 years & coached 5 years, for the TOUGHEST SOB EVER to coach in Va.  He would go "ONE-ON-ONE" live against you!  If you ever lived through that - you can TAKE ANYTHING!  His idea for putting up with "frustrating people" was:  "If you can't beat sense in someone's head - try the other end instead"!

SEE 3 ATTACHED (in #3 = I am on the left & he is third from the left):
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 05:26:24 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #348 on: June 14, 2014, 05:33:11 PM »
J

Agreed.

What I am trying to get through here is that the average Joe that coaches youth football...9 out of 10 times if he has to defend a SW team he will have NO CLUE what he is trying to defend. Its not on TV and since they dont know what it is they are defending they cant even google some dead guy to find out what to do about it.

Its the advantage UBSW coaches have right out of the gate IMHO.

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe quote:  “There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.”
Like Coach Fritz once told me:  "you'll never die - you'll just DUMB-AWAY".

ALL the youth coaches would have to do is read the chapter in Bud's book on "DEFENDING THE UBSW" & instantly they would have the ADVANTAGE (talent being somewhat equal).

ABEBOOKS:  For as little as $8.00:

MODERN DEFENSIVE FOOTBALL by Charles (Bud) Wilkinson & Gomer Jones
NOTE:  It has the Wide-6, Overshifted-6 (evolved to "5-2 Okie"), 5-2 Eagle, 4-3, 5-3, 7-1, Goal Line 8-3, Goal Line 6-5, & Goal LIne 7-4.

Charles Burnham "Bud" Wilkinson (April 23, 1916 – February 9, 1994) was an American football player, coach, broadcaster, and politician. He served as the head football coach at the University of Oklahoma from 1947 to 1963, compiling a record of 145–29–4. His Oklahoma Sooners won three national championships (1950, 1955, and 1956) and 14 conference titles. Between 1953 and 1957, Wilkinson's Oklahoma squads won 47 straight games, a record that still stands at the highest level of college football. After retiring from coaching following the 1963 season, Wilkinson entered into politics and, in 1965, became a broadcaster with ABC Sports. He returned to coaching in 1978, helming the St. Louis Cardinals of the National Football League for two seasons. Wilkinson was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame as a coach in 1969.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 06:19:09 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline Michael

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #349 on: June 14, 2014, 10:40:00 PM »
You evidently DIDN'T read my list of "disadvantages" from my last post.

Nice going, Jburk.
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Offline Jburk

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #350 on: June 14, 2014, 10:53:37 PM »
Nice going, Jburk.

I know. Just....so much shame....so much fail.
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Offline Michael

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #351 on: June 14, 2014, 10:59:12 PM »
I know. Just....so much shame....so much fail.

If we get put in the same group for the class project, I'm going to be wicked annoyed.
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Offline Jburk

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #352 on: June 14, 2014, 11:03:47 PM »
If we get put in the same group for the class project, I'm going to be wicked annoyed.


I have this strange feeling, that we'd both get yelled at. Again.  ;D
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #353 on: June 14, 2014, 11:32:19 PM »

I have this strange feeling, that we'd both get yelled at. Again.  ;D

There is an old saying which goes:  "Be careful what you ASK for, you might get it"!
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Offline Jburk

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #354 on: June 14, 2014, 11:36:04 PM »
There is an old saying which goes:  "Be careful what you ASK for, you might get it"!

Fair enough.  ;)

I think the confusion came in when you added the extra details after I hit the quote button and authored my response. No worries.
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #355 on: June 14, 2014, 11:40:34 PM »
Fair enough.  ;)

I think the confusion came in when you added the extra details after I hit the quote button and authored my response. No worries.

OK!  Have a pleasant evening!
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 11:44:32 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #356 on: June 16, 2014, 12:55:02 AM »



2.   The teams of members on this site make direct snaps to the TB & he has to sit & WAIT on the damned ball (slows the play down).  ALL the great SW coaches (on EVERY LEVEL) I ever knew made LEAD snaps to the TB (snapping the ball at the FB's original align so the TB could take it on the MOVE).  ATTACHED below (#2) is what Pop Warner said (in 1912) about "LEAD SNAPS").  "Youth" centers CAN be taught to snap it to where the FB aligned (he does this on FB plays anyway).

3.   If you pull the long-side Guard (next to the center) it causes BIG penetration over his position.  Princeton & Ken Keuffel quit doing this (the Michigan staff got FIRED in the early 1950's & this was one factor cause they couldn't run O.T. anymore).  I had 2 kids to PLAY for Princeton (late 50's & early 60's), & Princeton All-Time Great - Dick Kazmaier - lived in Richmond.  They ALL alluded to this.  I have Keuffel's (& Princeton's) film, & have been a guest in his home, & watched him play.  I doubt if ANYONE living (next to Ed Racely) knows a FRACTION of SW ball like the late Ken Keuffel did).   In 1945 almost every SW coach who dropped the offense for the Tight-T & Split-T alluded to this fact).  Leahy at ND, & Blaik at Army, wrote (& spoke of this).

4.  Center is not 100% a blocker (with his head between his knees).   In 1945 almost every SW coach who dropped the offense for the Tight-T & Split-T alluded to this fact as a MAJOR CONCERN).  Leahy at ND, & Blaik at Army, wrote (& spoke of this)



Bill I agree with all three of these points.

We run a ton of Beast and eventually do get the Center to lead the RB but this is hard to accomplish. The more the RB in Beast has to wait...the worse off the play design becomes. Still the C/QB then QB/ RB exchange will still take more time than direct snapping. I always wondered if the spinning FB in the SW was invented as way of "going under center" because an under center QB will forever be more deceptive than a direct snap QB...unless that QB spins.

We decided to stop pulling any OLM including traps many seasons ago and have seen nothing negative come from that decision. Unless you want to use an OLM to kick out an edge defender that is close I see nothing but a wasted player and a design that is hard to teach and hard to cover. It is RARE that a player can pull, lead and make a difference at the youth levels...now Stanford...well OK....they are highly recruited and highly trained OLM.

It is 1000 times more difficult to train an 9 year old to direct snap then step to block than it is to have him snap to a QB under center and then step to block. Maybe higher. 9 out of 10 poor C/ QB exchanges from under center are the QB's fault. 10 out of 10 poor C/ QB exchanges while direct snapping are on the Center. I think Coach Cisar has mentioned a SW Center needs 1000 reps in pre season. I can teach a high quality under center C/QB exchange in one practice....maybe 25 reps?  I teach both too so this is a fact.
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Offline HCScott

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #357 on: June 16, 2014, 01:43:25 AM »
 

It is 1000 times more difficult to train an 9 year old to direct snap then step to block than it is to have him snap to a QB under center and then step to block. Maybe higher. 9 out of 10 poor C/ QB exchanges from under center are the QB's fault. 10 out of 10 poor C/ QB exchanges while direct snapping are on the Center. I think Coach Cisar has mentioned a SW Center needs 1000 reps in pre season. I can teach a high quality under center C/QB exchange in one practice....maybe 25 reps?  I teach both too so this is a fact.
[/quote]

 

First of all most coaches say 1000 reps for almost anything done on the football field.
 
Secondly, you say high quality snaps  between the C & QB in 25 reps?
I don't believe it and would love my team to face one of your teams after 25 reps. I can't believe you would make such a comparison.

Thirdly, I doubt you'll find many coaches that agree they have had less bad snaps under center vs direct snap.
NOT TO MENTION BAD/fumbled HAND OFFS. I could go on and on about poor handoffs in the general population of youth football, you must be aware of this fact.

I wonder how many youth coaches TODAY would say they switched from the direct snap to under center vs those that have switched from under center to direct snap.

Of course I am bias too many bad snaps in freezing rain.
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Offline Michael

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #358 on: June 16, 2014, 02:00:13 AM »
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #359 on: June 16, 2014, 07:35:10 AM »
Dave

So Im confused. Wouldn't you have most likely have met this Team anyway after round one had you both won vs a different first round opponent?

I understand match-ups ala small DB's vs a Manimal WR or a sweep til they weep team vs a pair of really good edge defenders. Is that what you are saying? Still if you are going to win it all then how do you avoid the poor match-ups for your team?...or draw the better one?  Luck?

Mike

Sorry, just getting back from doing clinic in Panama City- then doing fathers day stuff

We didnt match up well with team G- they had a monster RB and a fairly good line- OK but not great passing attack- they werent going to throw a lot. We had TINY LBs- we just didnt have any tweeners on this team.  In non select youth football- you understand the situation

Team B who beat team G but was a better matchup for us- had several good but not great medium sized LBs and they threw more. We defended the pass very well- more Ints than the other team got completions and I felt very confident we would match up with the 3 medium sized running backs they had.

Like you- after 25 years of doing this hands on- I can size up teams pretty quickly and accurately
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