Author Topic: Defending the UBSW Offense  (Read 158437 times)

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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #360 on: June 16, 2014, 07:39:46 AM »
Wow!! A thread on how to stop the UBSW goes 19 pages and dang near 300 posts???? And you guys said it was easy  8)

Lol

Amazing

Funny how when I go to watch the AYF and Pop Warner National Championships- I always see SIngle Wing teams- but I rarely if ever see a single one back team  ;D
The results are the results ;D
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #361 on: June 16, 2014, 07:55:14 AM »
I think that's because too many 60 front coaches don't widen the tackle to a 6 or 7 technique.  You just can't let the TE block down on the tackle or ILB.  This is how is off-tackle would look against a split 4-4 (same as WT6).  Split 4-4 and WT6 strong vs. off tackle and sweep.





Weak Side End

Flow away:  Check counter and trail as deep as the deepest back looking for reverse.

Rover

Flow away:  cross key far back and BB for counter/trap.  No counter, cushion back through hook zone looking for throw back before getting into wide pursuit looking for cutback.

Weak Corner

Flow away and TE reaching inside:  Cushion back to back two-thirds.  Deep cut off pursuit through middle third in case play breaks

Will
 
Flow away: Cross key FB to WB looking for trap and counter.  No counter: secure backside side A gap and pursue inside out.  If window opens between RG and IT, take it if you can make it.

Nose and Tackle

Fingertip alignment should be aligned head up to inside.  Get a good get off play wedge and trap.   Power step with near foot, snap hands from the ground to the target, and explode hips.  Keep pressure on offensive blocker until you locate the ball carrier.  Do not spin out of down blocks.  If you have penetrated and beaten the down blocks head across the line of scrimmage (i.e., his head is on your hip or back) work down the heel line otherwise cross his face.  Play cutback

Mike

Flow at you: mirror FB flow and secure B to C gap.  Take on any down block by the wing with inside shoulder.  Play over the top.

Sam

Flow at you:  TE base blocks and near back attacks defensive end: trap the TE on the line of scrimmage and control C gap, squeezes the end over to D gap staying square, keeping inside arm free, controlling C gap and locate ball work across the ends face to the outside – do not go around the block. Do not allow inside release of the TE.

Strong End

Align outside shoulder of wing.  Take read step with inside foot.  Jam the inside release of the wing keeping off the Mike linebacker.  Cannot allow himself to be reached by the wing or give the wing a fast outside release.  Inside release of the wing: look inside for kick-out block.  Attacks all kick out blocks by attacking the block with the near shoulder while keeping shoulders square and squeezing the line of scrimmage.  Keep outside leverage (outside leg and arm free) and look for the play to bounce outside.  If the play bounces outside, keep runner on inside shoulder, work outside, and force back inside.  If he looses contain, he should cushion back to a correct intercepting angle.  Do not go around the block

Strong Corner

Base block by TE and inside release of wing read run.  Secondary contain - stay outside and close the play from outside in.  Do not come up inside or  over the line of scrimmage.  Stay outside in case the play bounces.

Free Safety

Sit and bounce for recognition of the play and back field flow.  Read the release of the WB/TE, backfield action, and ball level for run-pass read.   Run to: work through TE/WB to the alley to make sure it is not a play action pass.  If TE/WB blocks down, fill the alley fitting inside strong end.  He is unaccounted for and must be active in the run game. 


I think the UBSW would adjust to one hole inside and try to kick the 6/7 technique.

Nice write up

Yes- that is correct- we run 14 power and 14 trap at this- per my discussion with Mike M
That would be step #1

When you say you are keying the FB- I assume that means what most refer to as the Blocking Back- the "up back"?

On the trap our Blocking Back flows with the WB on a counter fake- it's a nice little play

When we see defenses like this we will run some of our base plays right out of the playbook like 14 Power and 14 Trap
However we will also use some tags and formation adjustments

If the DE is attacking our WB and the S is getting hands on our TE - we will widen into nasty so the DE cant be part of the play and the S either has to widen or keep his hands off the TE. We will widen the WB as well so the DE cant get his hands on him or he is too wide to get into the play

We then just run Nasty Tunnel- shield the E out with the TE- WB on next widest defender- in this case the CB-
We kick the S with BB and run the funnel with the FB and RG to block both LBs
If they are pass concious and the FS is really reading the release of the WB we will use a Paul call and just release the WB on a "pattern"

If the LBs are really hard reading the BB- we will sometimes call a wrong-G which is in our adjustments playbook and just have the G kick the S and run off the LBs with the BB away

We wouldnt just sit and take it- we have seen these type of defenses before ;D
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 10:13:09 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #362 on: June 16, 2014, 08:17:05 AM »
Hey guys - keep it going (let's make it to 1,000 posts) .

The WT-6 was used vs. the WING (LONGSIDE) into the boundary.  No great WT-6 will play a 7 vs. SW.  They play a 6 tech to draw the block of your WB so he can't get inside on LBer.

The Over-Shifted 6 was used vs. WING (LONGSIDE) to open field.  Running OT vs. the Over-shifted WT-6  is damned near IMPOSSIBLE unless you are that much BETTER than we are.  I have film of this defense completely shutting down the BEST SW teams:  NOTE:  We may also SLANT the front INTO (or away from) the WB if needed (highly effective).

“OVERSHIFTED SIX”  (VS. SINGLE WING)



---------------------  F--T
-----------W------B
---------------E-T-G-G-C-T-E
---------E---T—G----G----T-E
-------------------B-----B
----------C----------------------C
--------------------S


LEFT END:  Exactly the same as “Wide Six”.


LEFT TACKLE:  Line up just outside the offensive end, facing slightly to the inside.  Watch the end-wingback combination.  As the ball is snapped, charge hard at the offensive end.  Never let the end block you in alone.  As you charge the end, be conscious of the wingback.   (1)  If he is double teaming on you, be sure you can recover off the end and hit the wingback with a good forearm or hand shiver while working to the outside.  If the wingback blocks you in, you have not failed in your assignment.  However, you should make every effort to fight through the pressure of his block to the outside.   (2)  If the end blocks to the inside on your Guard, work fast down the line of scrimmage to the inside.  Do not get penetration if the end makes this movement.  In all probability, the blocking back or a lineman will trap you.   (3)  If the ball goes away from you, get depth immediately until you are as deep as the ball.  Maintain outside leverage against reverses.


LEFT GUARD:  Line up shading the outside of the offensive tackle.  As the ball is snapped, charge hard into the tackle, being sure that he cannot block you in alone.  As you make the charge, use your usual peripheral vision in keying the three offensive linemen in your immediate area.  If either the end or the outside guard is driving at you, adjust your charge to meet the pressure of the block.  Play the ball.
Note:  You must be conscious of the fact  that the only likely trap against you will be from the inside.  If you charge across the line of scrimmage, hit the guard opposite you, and get past him too easily, you should suspect that a trap play is being run.  When this happens, turn your head quickly to the inside and drive back for the line of scrimmage.  Try to keep your head inside the trap blocker, who, in this instance, will either be the short side tackle, or the inside guard playing next to the center.


RIGHT GUARD:  Line up head up with the middle lineman.  Since this formation is usually played from an unbalanced line you will be opposite the inside guard.  Charge straight into the inside guard, control your charge as well as possible, but hit with enough strength to drive the guard back.  Use your peripheral vision; watch the tackle, the guards, and the center.  React to these three men as you normally would in a regular “3 on 1” drill.  If you penetrate too easily you should suspect a trap in the making.  Traps on you will almost always come from your inside (your left).  If you feel a trap in the making, do not penetrate further.  Turn your head to the inside and move back toward the line of scrimmage.  NOTE:  If your guard is a frequent PULLER - get in his hip pocket & he will take you RIGHT to the P.O.A.


RIGHT TACKLE:  Line up on the offensive tackle shading him to the outside.  Be positive that he cannot block you in alone.  Watch the center, the tackle, and the end.  Key these three men exactly as you would in on regular “3 on 1” drill.  If you get penetration too easily, suspect a trap.  The trap will always come from the inside.  If you feel a trap coming, do not penetrate into the backfield.  Turn your head along the line of scrimmage, and keep your head between the trap blocker and the course of the ball.


RIGHT END:  Line up on the outside shoulder of the offensive end.  Charge the end and hit him, making every effort to keep him on the line of scrimmage.  React to the end’s block.  If the end is attempting to go downfield, hit him and hold him up.  As soon as he gets away from you, move in, reacting normally to the ball with your old rule of “Ball come, I come;  ball go, I go”.  You must remember that the end should never be allowed to get off the line of scrimmage TO YOUR OUTSIDE.  If he is able to do this, he will be able to hook you in.  Your basic assignment is never to be blocked in by the offensive end.
     If the end blocks in on your tackle, move down the line of scrimmage with him, trying to knock him off the block.  Stay shallow so that you cannot be blocked out by linemen, or the blocking back coming your way on a reverse.
     If the ball is going away from you, deepen as soon as you lose control of the end.  When you are as deep as the ball, pursue it, maintaining leverage on the play.


LEFT LINEBACKER:  Line up 2 ½ yards deep head up with the outside guard.  React to the guard.  If the guard pulls either way, go with him.  If  the guard makes an aggressive block to either side, start to fill the hole.  Be conscious of the linemen on either side of the guard.  If either of these men pulls in either direction, do not continue through the hole.  Move with them.  If neither of them pulls, continue to fill the gap.  The ball will be coming into your area.  If the guard makes a pass-protection block, drop quickly to your hook zone.


RIGHT LINEBACKER:  Line up 2 ½ deep shading the short side of the offensive center.  React to the offensive center.  If the center pulls in either direction, go with him.  If the center blocks aggressively to the right or to the left, come up to fill the hole.  Be conscious of the offensive linemen on either side of the center.  If neither of these men has pulled, continue to shoot through the gap.  If either of them has pulled, do not continue through the gap.  Adjust, play slowly, find the ball, and react on your normal angle of pursuit.  If the center makes a pass-protection block, drop back and cover your normal hook zone.

With just 4 1/2 defenders to the weak side- the defense is no longer good to the weak side

Thanks to some long talks with Apopka's Rick Darlington- we are now running a LOT more iso plays to the bubble in a variety of ways
There are nice bubbles over the Center and Right Tackle that would make sense attacking
Weve been experimenting with various Iso series (outdide of the Iso in the playbook) the last 2 years- but just at the youngest age levels
As I stated last week- we wont put it into the playbook until Ive proven it on grass with another age group and team (Im not it looks good on paper= success guy)
Like everything it is ran as a series- with similarity of implied intent. 2 years of data at just 1 age group just isn't enough data to publish right now.

The nice thing about the way you play your LBs- they fill when we block Iso or don't pull- so we just don't have to pull (which we don't on 14 Power and other plays) which takes them to where the play isn't. When we run plays off of Iso- we know where the LBs will be if they stay true to this approach.

As I mentioned in an earlier post-we dont always stay in our base formation
With the exception of season 1 of 18- we never have

The Nasty Split would widen both the T and E- which would be nice
Then again we just kick the G with the 14 Power or 14 Trap plays and it should be a very good play

Of course that alignment would be difficult against our base off tackle and sweep
But I wouldnt run them- I would run other plays
When I did run them- they would be out of other formations or with some small adjustments
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 10:19:18 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #363 on: June 16, 2014, 08:26:44 AM »
I have been doing exactly what you have prescribed with personnel so far.

I am going to call during the day and ask you questions concerning formations.
Thanks, this has been very informative.

Herb

Note- In my 303 Book- I talk about how teams will shift or personell to the field
Thats why I LOVE running plays into the boundary
Especially if they are to the "friendly" sidelines

In youth football the other team cant see well- they dont have spotters in the booth and headsets
A lot of times you can play all kinds of games with alignment with that DE
I love running Nasty there- just pound it right up the sidelines and let them defend the field all they want
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #364 on: June 16, 2014, 08:33:33 AM »

MIKE:  What, are you doubting my word?  I never have put ANYTHING on youtube.  I have a TON of film (I have a few coaches I met online coming here in July to SEE them).  Can send it to you for $75 each (to convert 800' of 16MM to DVD) or $25 (to convert VHS to DVD).  $5 postage will do it (no charge for my time involved).  How many would you like?

In your coaching career - did anyone ever explain to you that all football (by AGE) is "RELATIVE" (size, speed, psychological make-up)?  I have found this to be 100% true in a coaching career that dates back to 1959).  What the hell does using an unbalanced line have to do with coaching "youth" (if that guaranteed success why doesn't all "kiddie" coaches use it)?  That is just sheer NONSENSE!

You use the term "youth" as a "crutch" (this is getting "old").  I coached youth football too (kids still wore socks, jock straps, pants, jersey,  helmets, mouth pieces. shoulder pads, cleats; = kids still had to block & tackle; ETC).  I fail to see where you gain ANYTHING being "unbalanced" (even if the "kiddies" are 3).  1960 I coached 8-9 age group.  1961 I coached 10 year olds (6th grade), & 11 year olds (7th grade).  In 1962-63 I coached HS ball, BUT, also had a 7th grade team that practiced in the evenings.  We saw PLENTY of UBSW, UBDW, & UB/Winged-T, & UB/DW-T.  None gave us as much problem as BALANCED lines (that's why 99% of teams use balanced lines).  I will post a picture of my 1961/10 & 1961/11 year olds (that's me behind the "A" team) at bottom = ATTACHMENT #1).

PS:  In watching UBSW on youtube & DVD (much of it from members of this site) = the following things "jump out at me" as WEAKNESSES (UBSW).  There MAY be UBSW coaches who might benefit from reading this (unless they have "closed minds").  Every coach who abandoned the UBSW in the 1940's spoke (& wrote) of these: (most of the UBSW coaches on this site will "poo-poo" these, but hell, who cares if ostriches bury their head in the sand?).

1.  You time the plays with a calendar rather than a stop watch.  Bob Neyland (winningest SW coach of all times) preferred the balanced line SW BECAUSE the off-tackle play towards the WB  hit so much QUICKER (& you had more power on off-tackle plays away).  See #2:

2.   The teams of members on this site make direct snaps to the TB & he has to sit & WAIT on the damned ball (slows the play down).  ALL the great SW coaches (on EVERY LEVEL) I ever knew made LEAD snaps to the TB (snapping the ball at the FB's original align so the TB could take it on the MOVE).  ATTACHED below (#2) is what Pop Warner said (in 1912) about "LEAD SNAPS").  "Youth" centers CAN be taught to snap it to where the FB aligned (he does this on FB plays anyway). 

3.   If you pull the long-side Guard (next to the center) it causes BIG penetration over his position.  Princeton & Ken Keuffel quit doing this (the Michigan staff got FIRED in the early 1950's & this was one factor cause they couldn't run O.T. anymore).  I had 2 kids to PLAY for Princeton (late 50's & early 60's), & Princeton All-Time Great - Dick Kazmaier - lived in Richmond.  They ALL alluded to this.  I have Keuffel's (& Princeton's) film, & have been a guest in his home, & watched him play.  I doubt if ANYONE living (next to Ed Racely) knows a FRACTION of SW ball like the late Ken Keuffel did).   In 1945 almost every SW coach who dropped the offense for the Tight-T & Split-T alluded to this fact).  Leahy at ND, & Blaik at Army, wrote (& spoke of this).

4.  Center is not 100% a blocker (with his head between his knees).   In 1945 almost every SW coach who dropped the offense for the Tight-T & Split-T alluded to this fact as a MAJOR CONCERN).  Leahy at ND, & Blaik at Army, wrote (& spoke of this)

5.  "A primary weakness of the UBSW is that the weakside attack tends to be just that - WEAK".  Quote from Fritz Crisler whose 1947 Michigan team was the most TALENTED UBSW team I ever saw (I have their film).

6.  Harder to teach than most other offenses.  In 1945 almost every SW coach who dropped the offense for the Tight-T & Split-T alluded to this fact).  Leahy at ND, & Blaik at Army, wrote (& spoke of this).

7.  WHY was there a "mass exodus" from the UBSW (on ALL levels) beginning around 1945 (the reasons above were FACTORS)?

PS:  Anyone wanting to discuss any of this DEEPER (there are solutions to many of these problems) can phone me (in Va) at:  804-716-7038

ATTACHMENT #1 = my 10 year old team ("B Team"), & my 11 year old team ("A-Team).  That's me sitting behind the "A-Team".  We were undefeated, & unscored on (the year BEFORE I had the 8-9 year old team),

ATTACHMENT #2 = Pop Warner comment on Center snaps:

Bill

I didnt read the entire post- but you dont get the youth game

One of the MAJOR reasons we go unbalanced in youth football is so we only have to pull 1 player instead of 2
We DONT have huge rosters, we dont cut and unlike when you coached 85% of the teams HAVE to play kids a certain number of plays

We know how to teach pullers- we had a college all american lineman who was in the NFL for 9 years in real life coach our linemen- he agreed, unbalanced made the most sense for our equation. Which means we only needed 1 consistently good puller AND we were able to put a weaker player at the Weak End position- to help accommodate our weakest players getting their snaps.

Unbalanced does NOTHING to help us get numbers advantages- it never has with the exception of a few non conference tournament games for the first series. All of my competition has my books and DVDs- they align perfectly on unbalanced almost every time.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #365 on: June 16, 2014, 08:44:17 AM »

I played IN the UBSW (FB & TE) in 1952, and AGAINST it in 1953, 54, 55, & 56 (as a DE).  We TRIED teaching the UBSW with 8 year olds in 1959 before going to the POWER-I.  Used it in HS in 1962 & 1963 also (before regaining our "sense" & going to the Pro-Style of Sid Gillman, Vince Lombardi, etc).  What all that EXPERIENCE taught me was the "POWER-I" and "PRO-STYLE" was a LOT simpler to teach, & much more effective for us!

"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, and the lesson AFTERWARDS"!

****************************************************************************************

PS:  In watching UBSW on youtube & DVD (much of it from members of this site) = the following things "jump out at me" as WEAKNESSES (UBSW).  There MAY be UBSW coaches who might benefit from reading this (unless they have "closed minds").  Every coach who abandoned the UBSW in the 1940's spoke (& wrote) of these: (most of the UBSW coaches on this site will "poo-poo" these, but hell, who cares if ostriches bury their head in the sand?).

1.  You time the plays with a calendar rather than a stop watch.  Bob Neyland (winningest SW coach of all times) preferred the balanced line SW BECAUSE the off-tackle play towards the WB  hit so much QUICKER (& you had more power on off-tackle plays away).  See #2:

2.   The teams of members on this site make direct snaps to the TB & he has to sit & WAIT on the damned ball (slows the play down).  ALL the great SW coaches (on EVERY LEVEL) I ever knew made LEAD snaps to the TB (snapping the ball at the FB's original align so the TB could take it on the MOVE).  ATTACHED below (#2) is what Pop Warner said (in 1912) about "LEAD SNAPS").  "Youth" centers CAN be taught to snap it to where the FB aligned (he does this on FB plays anyway).

3.   If you pull the long-side Guard (next to the center) it causes BIG penetration over his position.  Princeton & Ken Keuffel quit doing this (the Michigan staff got FIRED in the early 1950's & this was one factor cause they couldn't run O.T. anymore).  I had 2 kids to PLAY for Princeton (late 50's & early 60's), & Princeton All-Time Great - Dick Kazmaier - lived in Richmond.  They ALL alluded to this.  I have Keuffel's (& Princeton's) film, & have been a guest in his home, & watched him play.  I doubt if ANYONE living (next to Ed Racely) knows a FRACTION of SW ball like the late Ken Keuffel did).   In 1945 almost every SW coach who dropped the offense for the Tight-T & Split-T alluded to this fact).  Leahy at ND, & Blaik at Army, wrote (& spoke of this).

4.  Center is not 100% a blocker (with his head between his knees).   In 1945 almost every SW coach who dropped the offense for the Tight-T & Split-T alluded to this fact as a MAJOR CONCERN).  Leahy at ND, & Blaik at Army, wrote (& spoke of this)

5.  "A primary weakness of the UBSW is that the weakside attack tends to be just that - WEAK".  Quote from Fritz Crisler whose 1947 Michigan team was the most TALENTED UBSW team I ever saw (I have their film).

6.  Harder to teach than most other offenses.  In 1945 almost every SW coach who dropped the offense for the Tight-T & Split-T alluded to this fact).  Leahy at ND, & Blaik at Army, wrote (& spoke of this).

7.  WHY was there a "mass exodus" from the UBSW (on ALL levels) beginning around 1945 (the reasons above were FACTORS)?

Ive taught the I- Option and Power game, Power I, DW, Veer and SW for 25 years- hands on- real youth  teams for entire seasons
The SW has been MUCH easier for us and weve scored 2x- 3x more points with it- and gotten 3x-4x the number of kids the ball

No difficult QB footwork to teach
The QB/C exchange is much safer and easier- if UC you have an exchange issue- you have a high change of losing the ball- In SW you have several yards of free zone to get the ball back
Far fewer ball exchanges= fewer turnovers

Already in a better- safer passing distance. Have lead huge league in passing probably last 5 of 6 years.

Can snap to 3 different players- aids in deception

Only 3% of youth teams in US using it- difficult to prepare for- Note there are no thread on how to defend the 1 back- teams struggle to defend this- they have are searching for something different

Can get everyone the football- last 6 years every non striped player on my team has carred the ball- Probably had over 70 different kids score real touchdowns

With small splits, recessed line and crab blocking- those techs not a big problem at all

First year in the league Im in now- 2005
Playing in Super Bowl game- to determine best team in 30 team age group
Playing team that hadnt lost in 2-3 years

Our starting QB broke his arm in game 5
2nd team guy wretched his knee in game 9
3rd team guy pulled his groin at swimming pool party at hotel the night prior to the game
4th team guy on 22 player squad was our starting RG- he had carried the ball 11 times prior to this game
With no difficult footwork to learn and we stayed away from handoffs- we were able to win the game. In the lobby of the hotel prior to the game- we taught him 5 plays he didnt know- up to that point he only knew the base 6-8 plays.
We also had to train a backup
We won the game- had I been running my I formation, Veer or DoubleWing- no chance we win that game
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 08:56:24 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #366 on: June 16, 2014, 08:51:04 AM »


It is 1000 times more difficult to train an 9 year old to direct snap then step to block than it is to have him snap to a QB under center and then step to block. Maybe higher. 9 out of 10 poor C/ QB exchanges from under center are the QB's fault. 10 out of 10 poor C/ QB exchanges while direct snapping are on the Center. I think Coach Cisar has mentioned a SW Center needs 1000 reps in pre season. I can teach a high quality under center C/QB exchange in one practice....maybe 25 reps?  I teach both too so this is a fact.


 

First of all most coaches say 1000 reps for almost anything done on the football field.
 
Secondly, you say high quality snaps  between the C & QB in 25 reps?
I don't believe it and would love my team to face one of your teams after 25 reps. I can't believe you would make such a comparison.

Thirdly, I doubt you'll find many coaches that agree they have had less bad snaps under center vs direct snap.
NOT TO MENTION BAD/fumbled HAND OFFS. I could go on and on about poor handoffs in the general population of youth football, you must be aware of this fact.

I wonder how many youth coaches TODAY would say they switched from the direct snap to under center vs those that have switched from under center to direct snap.

Of course I am bias too many bad snaps in freezing rain.


Herb

1000 reps is nothing
We are very good prior to 1000- but do the math

When in Indys- the Centers spend 1/2 their time with the backs or QBs

When the Qbs are throwing  or doing ball protection- or backs are doing one of the 4-6 drills they are doing that day- they are getting direct snaps
1 rep every 6 seconds = 200 reps in 20 minutes

They are alternating- but even at that
We do reps with a tall bag hit, then reps where the C crabs- then reps where the C crabs into the "A" gap
1000 reps is nothing
When we do team- 1 rep every 15 seconds- that's 4 per minute
30 minutes of team = 120 reps- even if he gets half of those- he gets to 1000s of reps prior to game 1- its not that big a deal
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #367 on: June 16, 2014, 09:10:16 AM »
Joe

I wish I knew of a base Defense that could do it all. I dont.  :'( The hardest part of making adjustments is how it effects the big picture.

In the examples listed in this Thread moving a FS up to play taps is relatively simple. You do have to drill taps....its a science.  Pulling your DE's out to play ILB's is not unless you take away their coverage responsibilities. When we look at something I always look at the cross training aspect first. If I can cross train then pull the trigger....if not...asking for trouble.

What I REALLY enjoyed about running the 353 was...as multiple as any Offense could be...so were we. The 353 is the most difficult D to teach that I know of but worth it. Every stunt effects 3 or 4 players around that stunt and that D is Stunt heavy.

Mike

The results are the results- end of story
The fellas running "my" system werent really- it was mostly home grown stuff. That's their perogative, it's their team.
I know they would have had answers had they chosen to stick to the template- they didnt.

If you are winning games with this approach and you are getting your required MPR guys their plays, kids are coming back and your injury rates are low- more power to you. Well done- again very nice tackling.

What works works, dont let anyone take you off of that
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #368 on: June 16, 2014, 10:30:48 AM »


It is 1000 times more difficult to train an 9 year old to direct snap then step to block than it is to have him snap to a QB under center and then step to block. Maybe higher. 9 out of 10 poor C/ QB exchanges from under center are the QB's fault. 10 out of 10 poor C/ QB exchanges while direct snapping are on the Center. I think Coach Cisar has mentioned a SW Center needs 1000 reps in pre season. I can teach a high quality under center C/QB exchange in one practice....maybe 25 reps?  I teach both too so this is a fact.


 

First of all most coaches say 1000 reps for almost anything done on the football field.
 
Secondly, you say high quality snaps  between the C & QB in 25 reps?
I don't believe it and would love my team to face one of your teams after 25 reps. I can't believe you would make such a comparison.

Thirdly, I doubt you'll find many coaches that agree they have had less bad snaps under center vs direct snap.
NOT TO MENTION BAD/fumbled HAND OFFS. I could go on and on about poor handoffs in the general population of youth football, you must be aware of this fact.

I wonder how many youth coaches TODAY would say they switched from the direct snap to under center vs those that have switched from under center to direct snap.

Of course I am bias too many bad snaps in freezing rain.

H

One practice for under center....a week for direct snaps. Now add in quality post snap blocking. Under center happens in a few weeks....direct snapping maybe never. Depends on what you need them to do. Its why when we run Beast the Center snaps and squats. Empty Gun the Center snaps and squats.

I am bias too and agree with you....in the freezing rain snow sleet...direct snapping is safer.

The SWingnuts hand off too. Have you looked into the layered hand off? I believe it reduces bad QB/ RB exchanges.
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #369 on: June 16, 2014, 10:34:37 AM »
Mike

Sorry, just getting back from doing clinic in Panama City- then doing fathers day stuff

We didnt match up well with team G- they had a monster RB and a fairly good line- OK but not great passing attack- they werent going to throw a lot. We had TINY LBs- we just didnt have any tweeners on this team.  In non select youth football- you understand the situation

Team B who beat team G but was a better matchup for us- had several good but not great medium sized LBs and they threw more. We defended the pass very well- more Ints than the other team got completions and I felt very confident we would match up with the 3 medium sized running backs they had.

Like you- after 25 years of doing this hands on- I can size up teams pretty quickly and accurately

Ahh....oh and happy belated Fathers Day.
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #370 on: June 16, 2014, 11:35:17 AM »


It is 1000 times more difficult to train an 9 year old to direct snap then step to block than it is to have him snap to a QB under center and then step to block. Maybe higher. 9 out of 10 poor C/ QB exchanges from under center are the QB's fault. 10 out of 10 poor C/ QB exchanges while direct snapping are on the Center. I think Coach Cisar has mentioned a SW Center needs 1000 reps in pre season. I can teach a high quality under center C/QB exchange in one practice....maybe 25 reps?  I teach both too so this is a fact.


****************************************************************************************


You are 100% correct.  Anyone who disagrees with that is spreading "misinformation" (in order to SELL BOOKS?).
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 11:37:23 AM by billmountjoy »
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #371 on: June 16, 2014, 11:38:14 AM »
H

One practice for under center....a week for direct snaps. Now add in quality post snap blocking. Under center happens in a few weeks....direct snapping maybe never. Depends on what you need them to do. Its why when we run Beast the Center snaps and squats. Empty Gun the Center snaps and squats.

I am bias too and agree with you....in the freezing rain snow sleet...direct snapping is safer.

The SWingnuts hand off too. Have you looked into the layered hand off? I believe it reduces bad QB/ RB exchanges.

Weve had MUCH better luck at maintaining possessions in cold and rainy weather with the SW- we are in tight

BTW the local HS team second largest class in the state- lost their State Title game- because just like we saw in an NFL Super Bowl a few years back- the QB pulled his hands too early- didn't have the palms together

Guess it must come down to coaching-weve never had a problem with it  ;D
Our opponents seem to really struggle with UC sometimes
Same for LONG shotgun snaps
We don't do either
80% of what we do is direct snap- no handoffs
Even on spin we are in so tight, when we get it to the QB- we don't hand off- we direct snap it
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #372 on: June 16, 2014, 11:43:59 AM »
H

One practice for under center....a week for direct snaps. Now add in quality post snap blocking. Under center happens in a few weeks....direct snapping maybe never. Depends on what you need them to do. Its why when we run Beast the Center snaps and squats. Empty Gun the Center snaps and squats.

I am bias too and agree with you....in the freezing rain snow sleet...direct snapping is safer.

The SWingnuts hand off too. Have you looked into the layered hand off? I believe it reduces bad QB/ RB exchanges.

Mike

Interesting

In the couple of games you put up on the net- it looks like about what 80% of your plays are direct snap beast (single wing) blast plays  ;D ;D
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #373 on: June 16, 2014, 11:50:06 AM »
Mike

Interesting

In the couple of games you put up on the net- it looks like about what 80% of your plays are direct snap beast (single wing) blast plays  ;D ;D

Dave

We just scored a lot of TD's running Beast.  :P Im mean it was a hi light film.

That season we were probably 60/40....under center / direct snap. Mostly to get all of our MP's going in Beast. Worked pretty good.

That's why I know it is MUCH more difficult to get a direct snap center on point compared to an under center snapper. Heck I used one kid for direct snapping and another one for under center.
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #374 on: June 16, 2014, 11:53:53 AM »
Weve had MUCH better luck at maintaining possessions in cold and rainy weather with the SW- we are in tight

BTW the local HS team second largest class in the state- lost their State Title game- because just like we saw in an NFL Super Bowl a few years back- the QB pulled his hands too early- didn't have the palms together

Guess it must come down to coaching-weve never had a problem with it  ;D
Our opponents seem to really struggle with UC sometimes
Same for LONG shotgun snaps
We don't do either
80% of what we do is direct snap- no handoffs
Even on spin we are in so tight, when we get it to the QB- we don't hand off- we direct snap it

Dave

Most of the issue with under center exchanges is indeed the QB.

have you ever tried the layered hand off? Easy teach and it is more deceptive. 
What is beautiful, lives forever.