Author Topic: Defending the UBSW Offense  (Read 158375 times)

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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #375 on: June 16, 2014, 12:00:55 PM »
Coach HS Scott:

80% of the time the ball is considered "on the hash" (within 5 yds. of hash)  Use the "Overshifted-6" if the strong-side is into the wide field.  If they put the strong-side into the boundary - use the base "Wide-6".

A team using the "Overshifted-6" matches the strength of the UBSW to EACH side (NOT SO with most youth defenses I see on this site).  The F/S aligns on the FB - so if the FB moves more to longside - so does the F/S = keeping the numbers even.  It is the best way to defend the UBSW strong-side (GREAT vs OT & Sweep), AND they gain NO "advantage" going weak (AND into the short field).   See ATTACHMENT #1

If they think the will run at the "bubbles" - there will BE no bubbles if the LBers fill into the LOS QUICK, OR,  when you SLANT the front (see ATTACHMENT #2).  If they keep going weak = it is easy to SLANT WEAK.

PS:  Of course there are "coaches" in this discussion who think they know better than Neyland, Bryant, & Wilkinson (whose ideas I have posted).  They will use the famous "I coach youth" EXCUSE.  REMEMBER - the UBSW was a COLLEGE offense that filtered down to "youth", just as the defenses that STOPPED it were COLLEGE defenses that ALSO filtered down to "youth"!   THESE defenses are as EASY to teach (& more logical) than any I have seen on here (EVEN with the 8 year olds I once coached)

Let me know if further questions.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 12:45:09 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #376 on: June 16, 2014, 12:06:32 PM »
Dave

Most of the issue with under center exchanges is indeed the QB.

have you ever tried the layered hand off? Easy teach and it is more deceptive.

Im a big Dead T fan- so yes Ive tried it

We don't have problems with turnovers- so it would be trying to fix a non existent problem
We are in so tight and low and we hit the LOS so quick off all those rubs- it doesn't do much for us
For other offenses- I could see how it would be an advantage

While I liked the deception of it- I didn't like the fact our kids couldn't use his arms to run or stiff arm- so we scrapped it
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #377 on: June 16, 2014, 12:10:56 PM »


It is 1000 times more difficult to train an 9 year old to direct snap then step to block than it is to have him snap to a QB under center and then step to block. Maybe higher. 9 out of 10 poor C/ QB exchanges from under center are the QB's fault. 10 out of 10 poor C/ QB exchanges while direct snapping are on the Center. I think Coach Cisar has mentioned a SW Center needs 1000 reps in pre season. I can teach a high quality under center C/QB exchange in one practice....maybe 25 reps?  I teach both too so this is a fact.


****************************************************************************************


You are 100% correct.  Anyone who disagrees with that is spreading "misinformation" (in order to SELL BOOKS?).

Bill

I was a HUGE advocate of doing this YEARS before I agreed to the many suggestions that I take the manual for my program and take the time to make it into a book and publish it. Nothing has changed from what I said then and what I say now- just my personal experience of coaching youth football and all the feedback I get from the 1000s of guys running my system over the years
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #378 on: June 16, 2014, 12:28:11 PM »
The point being....if you are going to run the SW you will need to get really good at direct snapping.

So make sure you get those 1000 reps in....with TWO Centers...ASAP.

And when you get really good at it...going back to one of Bill's original statements...you can directional direct snap.

This takes time and commitment.

The reason I stopped running the SW many years ago....the snap. The reason we stopped running Pistol this past Spring....the snap. Its not that the snaps were bad....too many broken plays when the snaps are off....even slightly.

Much easier to gun snasp with the QB at depth because he can more easily react to a snap that is off. Its one of the reasons I am not understanding the DWingnuts or the WingTnuts going direct snap. Seems counterproductive to me. Like running the SW from under center.
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Offline coachgregory

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #379 on: June 16, 2014, 12:41:23 PM »
The point being....if you are going to run the SW you will need to get really good at direct snapping.

So make sure you get those 1000 reps in....with TWO Centers...ASAP.

And when you get really good at it...going back to one of Bill's original statements...you can directional direct snap.

This takes time and commitment.

The reason I stopped running the SW many years ago....the snap. The reason we stopped running Pistol this past Spring....the snap. Its not that the snaps were bad....too many broken plays when the snaps are off....even slightly.

Much easier to gun snasp with the QB at depth because he can more easily react to a snap that is off. Its one of the reasons I am not understanding the DWingnuts or the WingTnuts going direct snap. Seems counterproductive to me. Like running the SW from under center.

Maybe because we don't have issues with the snap....  In all honesty we have very few issues with the snap...and when we do they are often short and can simply be picked up and ran...

Like many things it is all in the coaching of it.  Just like the passing game :)

Jack
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #380 on: June 16, 2014, 12:42:20 PM »
Maybe because we don't have issues with the snap....  In all honesty we have very few issues with the snap...and when we do they are often short and can simply be picked up and ran...

Like many things it is all in the coaching of it.  Just like the passing game :)

Jack

ONE bad snap per game can be fatal!
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #381 on: June 16, 2014, 12:43:53 PM »
Maybe because we don't have issues with the snap....  In all honesty we have very few issues with the snap...and when we do they are often short and can simply be picked up and ran...

Like many things it is all in the coaching of it.  Just like the passing game :)

Jack

Jack

That is why I specifically referenced 9 year olds in my original thought. Like passing....some stuff gets easier as they get older.  :)
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #382 on: June 16, 2014, 12:44:05 PM »
The point being....if you are going to run the SW you will need to get really good at direct snapping.

So make sure you get those 1000 reps in....with TWO Centers...ASAP.

And when you get really good at it...going back to one of Bill's original statements...you can directional direct snap.

This takes time and commitment.

The reason I stopped running the SW many years ago....the snap. The reason we stopped running Pistol this past Spring....the snap. Its not that the snaps were bad....too many broken plays when the snaps are off....even slightly.

Much easier to gun snasp with the QB at depth because he can more easily react to a snap that is off. Its one of the reasons I am not understanding the DWingnuts or the WingTnuts going direct snap. Seems counterproductive to me. Like running the SW from under center.

Ive been coaching 18 seasons of SW_ and LOTS of years at the youngest age groups
The short shotgun- never had any problems with it and we probably practice less than anyone here on the board

Weve had lots of seasons without a single turnover due to snap and lots of games without a poor snap or exchange
We used to sell every season- every snap every game- but people weren't interested in buying them so I stopped doing that. It showed we never struggled with it

Keys:
Choose the right temperament for Center
Give him the 3 coaching points we use
Rep him a bunch the way I suggested in this thread
Give the kid a very easy target to snap to- low and close

Mike- I thought you posted an entire game once- your championship game- am I wrong about that?
Seemed like 80+ % of your snaps were shotgun- several series I think every snap was a gun snap
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #383 on: June 16, 2014, 12:49:44 PM »
Dave

We just scored a lot of TD's running Beast.  :P Im mean it was a hi light film.

That season we were probably 60/40....under center / direct snap. Mostly to get all of our MP's going in Beast. Worked pretty good.

That's why I know it is MUCH more difficult to get a direct snap center on point compared to an under center snapper. Heck I used one kid for direct snapping and another one for under center.


So most of your TDs were scored when you had your MPRs in? Wow- what an endorsement  ;D
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #384 on: June 16, 2014, 12:52:29 PM »
ONE bad snap per game can be fatal!

That's why I like the short gun snap
If there is an issue- plenty of room- with no splits to pick it up

Under Center, the D is right on top of you right away and most times your QB doesn't  know where the ball is- it gets lost down there in the mess of bodies

In short gun, almost always the ball is in front of you, REALLY easy to locate
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #385 on: June 16, 2014, 12:56:15 PM »
Ive been coaching 18 seasons of SW_ and LOTS of years at the youngest age groups
The short shotgun- never had any problems with it and we probably practice less than anyone here on the board

Weve had lots of seasons without a single turnover due to snap and lots of games without a poor snap or exchange
We used to sell every season- every snap every game- but people weren't interested in buying them so I stopped doing that. It showed we never struggled with it

Keys:
Choose the right temperament for Center
Give him the 3 coaching points we use
Rep him a bunch the way I suggested in this thread
Give the kid a very easy target to snap to- low and close

Mike- I thought you posted an entire game once- your championship game- am I wrong about that?
Seemed like 80+ % of your snaps were shotgun- several series I think every snap was a gun snap

Dave

For me it goes back to football never being perfect....so why fight it. We always do both. Under center requires almost no maintenance once taught...direct snapping requires constant maintenance after its been taught. Much like the 2 point 3 point stance discussions.

You run the SW so you must spend that time with the Center...and should. No argument there. I run the Beast as a package so I can bail out at any time. We practice the Beast 5 minutes per practice.

Plus direct snapping becomes easier as they get older...like everything else. Its the main reason we CANT realistically start kicking PAT's until maybe the 9 year old level. We actually made two of them last season. This year we should be able to hit 50%...I hope. Long snapping for punts?...we dont do that...all quick kicking.
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #386 on: June 16, 2014, 01:01:38 PM »
Mike

I agree, certain things like catching the ball - get a lot easier with age

Last 2 seasons- Ive coached 7-9s
Last year we had something like 5 turnovers total for the season
I think just 1 might have been to a bad snap- he snapped it to wrong kid- kid wasn't ready for it, we bobbled and lost it
Player was a rookie 9 year old
He had maybe 7-8 games where he was perfect on 45-65 snaps

The year before it was a 9 year old- second year player- first year at Center
We had 7 turnovers for the season
We might have had one game where it was his fault
Not over the head or anything- but again snapping to wrong player- he heard the play wrong
He did a great job- again 8-9 perfect games

When I first started running this O- I was worried about it
Because I see all those youth gun teams struggling with it
We don't- maybe it has to do with how we teach and rep it- maybe it has to do with how tight and low we are- or a combination of the 2
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #387 on: June 16, 2014, 01:04:25 PM »

So most of your TDs were scored when you had your MPRs in? Wow- what an endorsement  ;D

Dave

And why I love the Beast !

Depends on how you define a MP though. Our starting QB who is an incredible passer played LOT his rookie season for the first three games while he overcame his fears. This team probably had 15 MP's for a while.  ;)

Last season...hi lights forthcoming....we probably ran the same 60 / 40 under center / direct snap ratio but now 30% of the direct snaps were now 5 wide pure passing and 10% Beast.

This season we will probably be 50/50.....with 40% direct snapping in our 5 wide pure passing and 10% Beast but that might change after our mega splits discoveries last Spring running Beast. We will still use the 5 wide for MP's but we only have a couple now....thanks to many many Beast reps during games while they were Super Smurfs.
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Offline coachgregory

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #388 on: June 16, 2014, 01:05:19 PM »
ONE bad snap per game can be fatal!

Bill,

That can be said about a lot of things.  The reality is if you teach it, place an emphasis on the details, and correct mistakes through good reps... It like many things become less of an issue.  I don't see the big deal and frankly we have played in rain storms and even ice/sleet in a game or two and we didn't lose one snap.  Have we lost balls on bad snaps...yep sure have...maybe two or three in an entire season...  But our opponents tend to lose five and six times as many under center and in shot gun as we do...  It comes down to coaching and making sure the right kid is in the position to handle the snap and the blocking as well as the ability to keep his focus in the game.

Jack

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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #389 on: June 16, 2014, 01:06:32 PM »
Bill,

That can be said about a lot of things.  The reality is if you teach it, place an emphasis on the details, and correct mistakes through good reps... It like many things become less of an issue.  I don't see the big deal and frankly we have played in rain storms and even ice/sleet in a game or two and we didn't lose one snap.  Have we lost balls on bad snaps...yep sure have...maybe two or three in an entire season...  But our opponents tend to lose five and six times as many under center and in shot gun as we do...  It comes down to coaching and making sure the right kid is in the position to handle the snap and the blocking as well as the ability to keep his focus in the game.

Jack


ODDS much greater with direct snap than UTC!
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com