Author Topic: Defending the UBSW Offense  (Read 158432 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

  • Gold
  • Posts: 4611
  • Total likes: 73
  • Read Only Account. Please no PM's or Emails
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Undecided
  • Offense: Undecided
  • Title: Retired
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #435 on: June 18, 2014, 07:33:15 PM »
And why sit in one formation all game long?

Coach Keuffel, for example, (whom I admire greatly) would have immediately gone to his "end over" formation in which he aligns his QE on strong side. He also would align his TB (or some "other kid who can block" as I heard him say it on tape at a SW Symposium) to weakside as a "WB". BTW, as an aside, I could never understand his book until I heard him describe how he ran his offense. I wish I could have spoken with him!

Last season, we would have adjusted the alignment of the SE, QE, WB, and BB. The WB and BB would be moved to both strong and weak sides, to a number of locations. All to provide "leverage" and to FORCE the opposing coaches to decide how to adjust. Just as Doc Ward and many others do it. Now, I've been fortunate enough to be up in a booth the last two years on Friday nights but, these are VERY simple to do. I understand it might be a bit more of a challenge on the field without coaching help from up in a booth.

This is no different than when running DC's DCWT offense or Jack's DW. It all comes down to "formationing" to gain advantages. Its no different!

As to the running to the short side of the field. We ALWAYS do that to our side early in the game. There is no better method for seeing, up close, how the defense is aligning and adjusting. Best idea I ever learned, on the field and during games, from a local HS HC.

FWIW, Coach K. also always threw to short side of field. Always. He believed that it was an easier throw to make with less space. Doc, as you know, does the same thing. Not sure if Menominee does that as well, but, as you know, they pass the ball alot.

One observation that has not been brought up in this crazy long thread, is the challenge that I see most frequently at youth level around here...that the refs usually mark the football in the middle of the field since hash marks are not shown on many youth fields (youth programs around here usually do not play on HS fields). That, to me, has a huge impact on what plays you might call/install.

Is the continual marking of the ball in the center of the field crazy? Yes.


Ken Keuffel was one of my closest coaching friends.  He, Ed Racely, & I visited each every other year going back to 1961 when he helped us install our UBSW.  Even after we stopped using the UBSW - he spent a week at my house every other July until he passed away in Feb. 2006 (we would clinic on defense, & he would visit his God-Daughter near here).  He was a class individual (he & Betsy were very gracious hosts).  Ken had back surgery that "went bad" & was nearly a cripple the last couple of years of his life.

Ken did use formations better than any UBSW coach I ever saw (along with Dick Colman of Princeton).

Ken always told me that what he hated to see the MOST was an "Overshifted-6", that had the ability to SLANT strong or weak (depending on HIS formation(s).  I visited him & helped him install that defense.  Ed Racely can verify this.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 08:20:31 PM by billmountjoy »
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com

Offline JB

  • Silver
  • Posts: 1560
  • Total likes: 10
  • "Hang Tough! Never, ever, give up"-Maj. D. Winters
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Other
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #436 on: June 18, 2014, 07:49:08 PM »

Ken Keuffel was one of my closest coaching friends.  We visited each other going back to 1962 when he helped us install our UBSW.

You are very fortunate to have known him. What an opportunity!

I try to scoop up any video of his teams that I can find. His influence on many of the current SW teams is very evident, especially after I heard him describe his concepts/approaches. Many of us who run the SW, unknowingly, use his concepts if we've been coordinating ideas with other current SW coaches. (I realized this this after listening to him at a clinic on tape! Many of us use his ideas!)

"The big lesson in life, baby, is to never be scared of anyone or anything." Frank Sinatra

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

  • Gold
  • Posts: 4611
  • Total likes: 73
  • Read Only Account. Please no PM's or Emails
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Undecided
  • Offense: Undecided
  • Title: Retired
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #437 on: June 18, 2014, 07:55:00 PM »
You are very fortunate to have known him. What an opportunity!

I try to scoop up any video of his teams that I can find. His influence on many of the current SW teams is very evident, especially after I heard him describe his concepts/approaches. Many of us who run the SW, unknowingly, use his concepts if we've been coordinating ideas with other current SW coaches. (I realized this this after listening to him at a clinic on tape! Many of us use his ideas!)

I have great VHS "Hi-Lites" of one of his BEST teams, that featured Billy Glanville (who played at Duke & in the NFL).  Ken & I traded playbooks over the years (& critiqued each others' O&D) even after I dropped the UBSW.  I still have his actual playbooks (player notebooks).  Ken had what he THOUGH would be routine back surgery that "went bad", & was nearly a cripple the last couple of years of his life (DOD = 2006).

If you are ever in Va. I'll show you the VHS.

PS:  Two things Ken PREACHED (that I don't see as lot of UBSW teams DO):  He was HIGHLY critical of UBSW teams that didn't do these two things:
1.  LEAD SNAP the TB on OT & Sweeps (snap the ball to almost where the FB aligns so the TB can take the ball on the RUN).  He thought that was EASY to teach since most SW teams had direct snaps to the FB anyway.
2.  DON'T PULL the long-side Guard on OT & Sweeps (because of the ease with which the opponent can get PENETRATION).
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 09:40:28 PM by billmountjoy »
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com

Offline davecisar

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 9078
  • Total likes: 854
    • Winning Youth Football Coaching Site
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Wide Tackle 6
  • Offense: Single Wing
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #438 on: June 18, 2014, 08:42:29 PM »
Widen a step fighting the release and keep eyes inside for a kick- out block by a pulling lineman or near back.  The TE is his pressure key and his visual keys (i.e., ball level, backfield flow and blocking scheme) give him a run/pass read.  Basically mug the TE until the play is diagnosed.

Make sense?


Coach Titan

Yes it does thank you

Reminds me of the LB play of a GAM style D
When weve played teams like that- they really have a tough time staying with the TE when the play is coming downhill right at them- The jump pass was always very effective against them- that is a very difficult position to play. For most it was either total mug- which took them out of the play- or run readers which took them off the pass- was really tough for them to do both well.
That's why the jump pass is such a big constraint play for us

What do you do with him when the TE nasty splits?
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

  • Gold
  • Posts: 4611
  • Total likes: 73
  • Read Only Account. Please no PM's or Emails
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Undecided
  • Offense: Undecided
  • Title: Retired
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #439 on: June 18, 2014, 08:57:30 PM »
You are very fortunate to have known him. What an opportunity!

I try to scoop up any video of his teams that I can find. His influence on many of the current SW teams is very evident, especially after I heard him describe his concepts/approaches. Many of us who run the SW, unknowingly, use his concepts if we've been coordinating ideas with other current SW coaches. (I realized this this after listening to him at a clinic on tape! Many of us use his ideas!)


From Ken Keuffel = ATTACHED (the backside Guard does not pull to lead - his only job is to make sure the DLM on the Center doesn't penetrate)!
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 08:59:31 PM by billmountjoy »
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

  • Gold
  • Posts: 4611
  • Total likes: 73
  • Read Only Account. Please no PM's or Emails
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Undecided
  • Offense: Undecided
  • Title: Retired
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #440 on: June 18, 2014, 09:03:51 PM »
You are very fortunate to have known him. What an opportunity!

I try to scoop up any video of his teams that I can find. His influence on many of the current SW teams is very evident, especially after I heard him describe his concepts/approaches. Many of us who run the SW, unknowingly, use his concepts if we've been coordinating ideas with other current SW coaches. (I realized this this after listening to him at a clinic on tape! Many of us use his ideas!)


JB:  Forgot to mention this (I'm sure you have it):

 Winning Single Wing Football: A Simplified Guide for the Football Coach by Ken Keuffel (Apr 2004)
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com

Offline JrTitan

  • Silver
  • Posts: 1295
  • Total likes: 82
  • Coaching: Middle School
  • Defense: 4-4 Split
  • Offense: I Formation
  • Title: Coordinator
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #441 on: June 18, 2014, 09:40:00 PM »
What do you do with him when the TE nasty splits?

OLB split rules:

  • 1'-2'  head up
  • 2'-3'  play inside eye
  • 4'-5'  loosen slightly 1 yd
  • >6' (Nasty)  - switch w/end and play head up end (corner would drop down on the wing 5x1)

As far as the jump pass,  the OLB is not responsible for the vertical route by the TE.  The FS has the immediate threat.  But to your point, the OLB is run first and can't get balled up with the TE for ever.
"They call it coaching but it is teaching...You do not just tell them...you show them the reasons"

"You have to be smart enough to understand the game, and dumb enough to think it's important."

“…you have no bad habits to break...We either coach it or are allowing allowing it to happen.”

Offline JB

  • Silver
  • Posts: 1560
  • Total likes: 10
  • "Hang Tough! Never, ever, give up"-Maj. D. Winters
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Other
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #442 on: June 18, 2014, 09:50:08 PM »

JB:  Forgot to mention this (I'm sure you have it):

 Winning Single Wing Football: A Simplified Guide for the Football Coach by Ken Keuffel (Apr 2004)

Yes. I had him sign my book when I bought it.

I also have a copy of his first book.
"The big lesson in life, baby, is to never be scared of anyone or anything." Frank Sinatra

Offline JB

  • Silver
  • Posts: 1560
  • Total likes: 10
  • "Hang Tough! Never, ever, give up"-Maj. D. Winters
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Other
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #443 on: June 18, 2014, 09:53:39 PM »
I have great VHS "Hi-Lites" of one of his BEST teams, that featured Billy Glanville (who played at Duke & in the NFL).  Ken & I traded playbooks over the years (& critiqued each others' O&D) even after I dropped the UBSW.  I still have his actual playbooks (player notebooks).  Ken had what he THOUGH would be routine back surgery that "went bad", & was nearly a cripple the last couple of years of his life (DOD = 2006).

If you are ever in Va. I'll show you the VHS.

PS:  Two things Ken PREACHED (that I don't see as lot of UBSW teams DO):  He was HIGHLY critical of UBSW teams that didn't do these two things:
1.  LEAD SNAP the TB on OT & Sweeps (snap the ball to almost where the FB aligns so the TB can take the ball on the RUN).  He thought that was EASY to teach since most SW teams had direct snaps to the FB anyway.
2.  DON'T PULL the long-side Guard on OT & Sweeps (because of the ease with which the opponent can get PENETRATION).

I also heard him state that he does not understand why more SW teams do not run from the end over formation.

For those wondering, it is killer when you run end over in hurry up mode and flip the formation. Want to watch defenders heads spin?!?
"The big lesson in life, baby, is to never be scared of anyone or anything." Frank Sinatra

Offline JB

  • Silver
  • Posts: 1560
  • Total likes: 10
  • "Hang Tough! Never, ever, give up"-Maj. D. Winters
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Other
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #444 on: June 18, 2014, 10:02:11 PM »
Ken had what he THOUGH would be routine back surgery that "went bad", & was nearly a cripple the last couple of years of his life (DOD = 2006).

If you are ever in Va. I'll show you the VHS.


I wondered about that, he was laboring to move in last clinic footage that I have.

I may take you up on that.
"The big lesson in life, baby, is to never be scared of anyone or anything." Frank Sinatra

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24265
  • Total likes: 2547
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 8 & Under
  • Defense: 3-5-3
  • Offense: Wing T
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #445 on: June 19, 2014, 12:47:53 AM »
I also heard him state that he does not understand why more SW teams do not run from the end over formation.

For those wondering, it is killer when you run end over in hurry up mode and flip the formation. Want to watch defenders heads spin?!?

JB

What do you mean by end over....balanced to unbalanced?

ooops...never mind....I found it in another one of your posts.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 12:50:52 AM by mahonz »
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24265
  • Total likes: 2547
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 8 & Under
  • Defense: 3-5-3
  • Offense: Wing T
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #446 on: June 19, 2014, 02:16:18 AM »
Great discussion Gents. Really fortifies my OP. Its been many many years since I was on the receiving end of the Cousins Philosophy and now I have even a better understanding of why I was so helpless thanks to this Thread.  Our UBSW was as multiple and dynamic as anything discussed here but the D never reacted to any of my nonsense.

So don't react to any of this nonsense. Formations, tags, motions, long side, weak side, boundary this, field that...all nonsense. Just play Cousins and play football.

Conclusion.  Play the flexed 40 or the tilted 50....play 6 Lb'rs as Cousins....maybe float the FS around in the flexed 40 or not vs teams that can pass and watch the OC run out of options..slowly or quickly depending. That is exactly what happened too me and that is exactly how its gone when I use this Philosophy.... as well as a few others on this Forum.... when facing the UBSW. 


Less IS More.  ;)
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline davecisar

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 9078
  • Total likes: 854
    • Winning Youth Football Coaching Site
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Wide Tackle 6
  • Offense: Single Wing
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #447 on: June 19, 2014, 07:13:00 AM »
OLB split rules:

  • 1'-2'  head up
  • 2'-3'  play inside eye
  • 4'-5'  loosen slightly 1 yd
  • >6' (Nasty)  - switch w/end and play head up end (corner would drop down on the wing 5x1)

As far as the jump pass,  the OLB is not responsible for the vertical route by the TE.  The FS has the immediate threat.  But to your point, the OLB is run first and can't get balled up with the TE for ever.


Coach

As I stated on threads you posted earlier- widening the S with a 3 yard Nasty split makes the Nasty Tunnel a fairly easy play to run. The book says split 2.5 yards- so we are in that area. The RTE blocks out on the DE- he is recessed- and that takes the S even further outside if he insists on getting his hands on the TE. The WB blocks out as well- he has second widest guy- the C

The BB kicks the widened S- the FB and RG run the funnel and lead up on the LBs or FS if he shows early. Like I said earlier the key is to make the FS stay at 8-10 yds and respect the possible pass threat- which you said he is responsible for- the Jump pass. The Jump pass is thrown tight if the FS is deep or deep if the FS is tight. As Ive always stated we use the Jump pass as a constraint play- the same way we use wedge. When the QB is running downhill right at S- S bails on the TE to tackle the QB pretty much every time. If the FS makes the play tight off tackle- we have the consistent gainer we are looking for.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 08:24:44 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 9078
  • Total likes: 854
    • Winning Youth Football Coaching Site
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Wide Tackle 6
  • Offense: Single Wing
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #448 on: June 19, 2014, 07:46:22 AM »


PS:  Two things Ken PREACHED (that I don't see as lot of UBSW teams DO):  He was HIGHLY critical of UBSW teams that didn't do these two things:
1.  LEAD SNAP the TB on OT & Sweeps (snap the ball to almost where the FB aligns so the TB can take the ball on the RUN).  He thought that was EASY to teach since most SW teams had direct snaps to the FB anyway.
2.  DON'T PULL the long-side Guard on OT & Sweeps (because of the ease with which the opponent can get PENETRATION).


Early on- when we first started running SW 18 seasons ago- we had the backs at about 4.5 yards like most SW teams do
However because of a serious 50 mph cross wind- one of our backs scooted in tight to 2- 2.5 yards and asked the C to snap the ball to him low
We found we were able to hit the plays much quicker and more importantly- it added to the deception of the offense- no one could see which of the 3 backs we snapped the ball to. It made for a very easy and consistent snap as well. Speed to the hole was never ever an issue for us- so weve never had to bother with trying to gain a split second with a lead snap. We are already 2 yards closer to the LOS than traditional SW teams. It has been very successful for us at the youth level. For the tiny added benefit- for us it isn't worth the hassle. Snap and step is good enough for us. 

Our opps often times compliment us on how fast our off-tackle hits. It may be a combination of how tight we are and how we train our RBs with chaser drills and the like. Our off tackle certainly hit faster than when we ran off tackle out of the "I" Veer or Double Wing and without 2 ball exchanges.

As to pulling the Long Guard- early on we pulled the backside guard- but it added little to no value for us.  As to cleaning up garbage- with foot to foot line splits and a recessed line- there wasn't much garbage to pick up. We hit the hole so quickly- we were long gone before most problems presented themselves. Our base blocking rules cover for that opening. Anytime anyone pulls there is an opening that has to be filled- not a big deal with foot to foot and recessed line. We love it when teams blitz that gap or stack it, we don't have to pull- the LB wouldn't be there anyways- he is right in front of us to block with a "no" call the first call we teach.

Like many youth and HS teams we experimented with pulling the Long Guard. Pulling the weak guard didn't do anything for us and just took another player to the POA. With the foot to foot splits and being recessed off the line- we were able to consistently get a player to the POA to add value to the play. Just like Apopka- High School in 8A Florida- they run unbalanced- we pull the Right Guard. Just like them- if people are keying it, it sets up a monster key breaker play.

While many SW playbooks show 3-4 different players pulling- we found that in non select youth football with roster sizes of 17-25 like most teams have- that we rarely had more than 1 player who could consistently pull and make the type of contact we wanted on that play. We dont have 100 player rosters + like the HS teams and of course they never see all the kids who drop out before HS football- we do. They are on our teams and they HAVE to play. With having that one pulling player be at the midpoint of the line- allowed him equal distance to both sides. Solved a lot of problems.

Early on our playbook included a couple of plays where we pulled our Power Tackle- over time we had to adjust that play- because in real life, we didn't always have kids who could get there. Like Ive stated here very frankly- everything looks great on paper, what matters is what you can do on grass. There are even a couple of plays we run which require second level blocking by our RT- with some of my teams, we aren't able to run that play effectively. That's real life youth football, not a paper internet battle.

Ive showed how our base plays work against what anyone has drawn up. In some cases we just added an adjustment tag- which is no big deal- most of them we start teaching in weeks 2-3, some are even on the wrist band. 14 Power and nasty/tunnel were on all of my kids wrist bands at age 8-9 last year for the first game.

Reality is- there are over 1,000 real world testimonials on my web site from guys who have had great seasons, championships, worst to first turnarounds- even National Championships using my system and approach to coaching. There are a lot more success stories than that- but most guys don't want their name or teams name up on the board- lots of great seasons I know of, aren't on the board.  My own teams have gone 161-21 and never lost an out of conference game- it works.
http://winningyouthfootball.com/testimonials.php

The results are the results

This isn't meant to besmirch Coach K in any way- from what I understand he was a great coach and good person. Ive had a copy of his book for many years, I know he ran his offense at the HS level- we run our youth version a bit differently and of course added some modern nuances.

Ive attended and spoke at the largest SIngle Wing Coaches clinics in the US 2 times in the last 10 years. There are several of the guys there who are in contact with the old time SIngle Wing guys. From what I understand they are THRILLED that their offense has seen a resurgence and renewed interest. Heck we even saw a bunch of it at the College level and even some in the NFL of late. In Urbans Way- in his book he claims he is basically a Single Wing coach. Ive been told the old timers love the nuances and modern flavor many are adding to their beloved Single Wing.

Ive had the privilege of  being able to refine and optimize the SW at the youth level over the last 18 seasons as a hands on head coach in real life- with the youth equation. This approach works very well in that given equation.
We don't just run the base 4-5 traditional SW plays

Weve added small nuances- like a BB in so tight he can be snapped to- one of our biggest YPC plays consistently for the last 18 seasons. Ive been able to add a lot of "modern" twists to it like the Spread SW- Jet series and even a Zone Read look Buck Series. A belly series and even some Air Raid passing concepts- all within the framework of our philosophy that fits into Single Wing series football. Some of it was developed based on need- to solve specific problems- other times it was to add constraint to put a defense in conflict or stress them in a way we weren't able to before. Sometimes we were able to do it by adopting what other very successful offenses do and modify it into how it fits into a SW style offense.

In any event, it has worked and does work. Otherwise we wouldn't have a thread with so many views- nearly 4,000  ;D
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 09:29:18 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 9078
  • Total likes: 854
    • Winning Youth Football Coaching Site
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Wide Tackle 6
  • Offense: Single Wing
Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #449 on: June 19, 2014, 08:22:19 AM »
I think it's great we have been able to have a discussion about how to defend the SW

I'm sure it's helped some teams with their approach

I'm sure it's helped some offenses- with knowing which plays to call beyond the base 6 plays and what basic canned adjustments to call as well
There are answers for everything

For an offense that less than 3% of youth teams are running- it sure seems to cause a lot of problems and win a lot of games  ;D and cause teams to do a lot of very different things than they are used to doing- which is good if you are the OC   ;D

Ive got to thank Bill for posting so much info and giving me the Opportunity to explain the reasoning behind why we do what we do. When you write a book under 300 pages that encompasses all facets of the game, there just isn't enough room to explain all the reasoning behind what we do. For that, I am very appreciative.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 08:45:21 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill