Author Topic: Defending the UBSW Offense  (Read 158400 times)

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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2014, 09:56:43 AM »


The first year I left Mint Hill, the 8U team was loaded with talent. I went & watched them in the Nationals. None of my staff was coaching, but a couple of my players were playing. They told me they were running "My Offense". It wasn't anything close to what I did. They never bothered to scout for their next game. Needless to say they didn't win. I think from the outside looking in what a team does can appear easy, because good coaching makes it look easy. The truth is no one ever sees the work that actually goes in.

When someone asks what defense I hate seeing, I always reply the on that tackles well.

Joe

Joe

I hear you

It does get frustrating, most of us can empathize with that

I know Rob will be able to- after he leaves PSL

Case in point, year I leave Omaha- all teams have winning records
Combined we are winning 81% of our games- everything on track, everyone sticking to plan 100%, Im QCing everything, holding coaches accountable
We have best records at 9-10A, 11-12A and 13-14 A
I think we won or were runner up in a couple of the B divisions

Since I left, they've rarely had any single teams over .500
Watered down what I did added stuff, subtracted others

They came into the league I am now and at one time were winning something like 24% of their games
Last year was the first time ANY of their teams made it to the playoffs- they lost in round 1
They have never been near .500 as an org

Meanwhile my local teams went combined 34-1 last year
Last 5 years we led the league in combined winning %
We do everything right out of the book and I promise you they have more talent than we do
It matters, practice, offense- approach
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2014, 12:51:07 PM »


Anyone that read your posts and watched the clips would think I run that offense (no way I would run that) and that is my system- when 1/2 of it isn't my stuff I'm not supposed to say anything?  ::) got it

Thanks for posting it though, that's all good to finally know what exactly you played against.


The last slide is how we ran our Defense vs an UBSW Team we played twice in 2012 as 3rd graders. We lost to them in the regular Season but beat them in the Playoffs on our way to a Championship. This opponent was very good….best Team we played that season IMO. The video attached is a few snippets of our Defense from that Playoff Game vs that UBSW.  The only adjustment we made for the Playoff Game is we had our DE on the Strong Side MAUL the WB every play and fired one of our CB's during the Regular Season. He turned into a pretty good WR though so he was fine.


Dave

How did we get from there....to here? The only person to make this about you...is of course....you.

I have posted this clip before....you never attacked me then...complimented our efforts as a matter of fact.

Oh well.
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2014, 01:12:51 PM »
Mike

(first paragraph deleted by Dumcoach after editing Mahonz's post)

In other posts in the past you have refereed to playing "Cisar" team and beating them- I assumed this was the team. You said it was in this very thread- that they followed my stuff "right out of the book"
When I showed that they didn't-less than 1/2 of those plays were mine- you took offense. Time to move on.

As to the compliment- Your kids played well, I never bothered to watch more than the first couple of plays- yes your FS is a good tackler and you did well for the handful of clips I saw. I could do without the coaches screaming at the kids in a few of the clips, but that's just me  ;D I certainly wouldn't have played you that way- but all I do is follow the book  ;D ;D

Obviously you put a lot of time and effort into coming up with a special defense to try and use against my offense and my blocking rules- appreciate that. It means there are teams out there having success. Seems like there are always long drawn out "special facemelter defenses" out there with lots of posts on how to stop the DW, SW and Delaware  Wing T- that means those guys must be doing something right. You rarely see anything out there at the youth level on how to stop the I, Pro or Spread  ;D
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 04:14:24 PM by DumCoach »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2014, 01:38:00 PM »
Mike

(deleted)

In other posts in the past you have refereed to playing "Cisar" team and beating them- I assumed this was the team. You said it was in this very thread- that they followed my stuff "right out of the book"
When I showed that they didn't-less than 1/2 of those plays were mine- you took offense. Time to move on.

As to the compliment- Your kids played well, I never bothered to watch more than the first couple of plays- yes your FS is a good tackler and you did well for the handful of clips I saw. I could do without the coaches screaming at the kids in a few of the clips, but that's just me  ;D I certainly wouldn't have played you that way- but all I do is follow the book  ;D ;D

Obviously you put a lot of time and effort into coming up with a special defense to try and use against my offense and my blocking rules- appreciate that. It means there are teams out there having success. Seems like there are always long drawn out "special facemelter defenses" out there with lots of posts on how to stop the DW, SW and Delaware  Wing T- that means those guys must be doing something right. You rarely see anything out there at the youth level on how to stop the I, Pro or Spread  ;D

Dave

In the future if I post up SW film I will add a disclaimer....not approved by Coach Cisar.  :)

That 3rd grade season was an odd year. We played 3 SW Teams....two ran your version and one ran something else. I see the SW often around here and I attribute that to you....whether they run your stuff or Reed or whatever. Its very popular.

I truly do believe some Offense's require more than simple adjustments to the base. Triple Option falls into that category since it is so rare at the youth level. And we had better figure that one out real quick or we will be playing for second place for many years to come.

Anyway...this Thread was never directed at you personally or what you do. Some of the Forum Members asked me to better explain the SW Killer D we have been running for over a decade when ever we face a smoke and mirrors Offense like the SW , DW or Wing T. The idea is to sit back and then attack.....doing more with less. It has worked out pretty good for us and a few others on this Forum...and is a rather easy install.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 04:14:58 PM by DumCoach »
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2014, 01:57:03 PM »
Mike,

Just going off of what you've said and implied here and elsewhere on many threads

Again- if someone is claiming to run my offense and isn't (of 11 plays only 5 were in my playbook), I'm going to point it out
If Clark saw someone posting someone was running his offense and wasn't he would point it out, same for Jack or Steve or Joe etc

Especially when the poster has claimed over a long period of time- in many posts that- that is the offense he "beat" living in "Cisar hell"
Logically one would conclude- this is the film- which it was

No chance a team is running "my version" when less than 1/2 the plays are in my book and they don't bother doing some of the basics I preach on
Do they have the book? sure, Did they say they ran my offense? according to you- yes.
 Do they run my system- the film says an emphatic NO

In a forum, no one wants incorrect information out there- do they?
If the goal is to make coaches better and more informed, you wouldn't want to give them just 1/2 the story I would think
Let's leave it at that
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 02:25:27 PM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2014, 03:09:55 PM »
Mike,

Just going off of what you've said and implied here and elsewhere on many threads

Again- if someone is claiming to run my offense and isn't (of 11 plays only 5 were in my playbook), I'm going to point it out
If Clark saw someone posting someone was running his offense and wasn't he would point it out, same for Jack or Steve or Joe etc

Especially when the poster has claimed over a long period of time- in many posts that- that is the offense he "beat" living in "Cisar hell"
Logically one would conclude- this is the film- which it was

No chance a team is running "my version" when less than 1/2 the plays are in my book and they don't bother doing some of the basics I preach on
Do they have the book? sure, Did they say they ran my offense? according to you- yes.
 Do they run my system- the film says an emphatic NO

In a forum, no one wants incorrect information out there- do they?
If the goal is to make coaches better and more informed, you wouldn't want to give them just 1/2 the story I would think
Let's leave it at that

Oh...we lose some games too! You keep overlooking that.  ;)

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Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2014, 03:14:43 PM »
Dave

I had to chuckle too...have you watched any of Jacks film lately? Im not sure even he follows the plan. Good stuff. Check it out when you have a moment.
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2014, 03:34:07 PM »
Mike

We are probably a lot more rigid

My stuff is put together with explicit step by step instructions- do A, then b, then c, minute by minute practice plans
Game day reads etc

I totally respect Jack as a coach, he consistently wins- so it works for him

After coaching 182 real games as a HC with mine, it has evolved as well- but it's
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2014, 03:40:17 PM »
Mike

We are probably a lot more rigid

My stuff is put together with explicit step by step instructions- do A, then b, then c, minute by minute practice plans
Game day reads etc

I totally respect Jack as a coach, he consistently wins- so it works for him

After coaching 182 real games as a HC with mine, it has evolved as well- but it's

Dave

That is certainly where you and I differ. I am not that rigid at all when it comes to football. There are certain things I insist upon for sure but I waiver all over the place when it comes to systems.

Listening to your Interview last night was very interesting too me because we are so different.
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Offline coachgregory

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2014, 04:44:17 PM »
Dave

I had to chuckle too...have you watched any of Jacks film lately? Im not sure even he follows the plan. Good stuff. Check it out when you have a moment.

LOL...

Well if you had read the GUN book you would see that I do follow the "plan".  A lot of what I do is a little more advanced since I was coaching middle school kids and I had that same core of kids for four seasons.

I am back with 2nd graders so it will look more like what your used to seeing :)

Jack
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2014, 04:56:17 PM »
LOL...

Well if you had read the GUN book you would see that I do follow the "plan".  A lot of what I do is a little more advanced since I was coaching middle school kids and I had that same core of kids for four seasons.

I am back with 2nd graders so it will look more like what your used to seeing :)

Jack

Jack

Oh I think you should just start em out in the Nuclear DW and be done with it !
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Offline DumCoach

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #71 on: June 09, 2014, 10:43:41 PM »




It's an interesting defense and not necessarily a "face melter" as my Killer Bee can do anything done here as it already uses a "flexed" front and would do so without a single call (the "cloud" coverage replaces the "taps").  Some things the Killer Bee would do even better (stopping Wedge, covering the BB, and following the Puller).    But, unless I don't I understand what I'm looking at, aren't you giving the BB (H) one more defender than he can kick out?  And then backed up both sides with a "reaper"?  Which then leaves them with nowhere to run but the middle with trap or wedge?
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Offline akpoole

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2014, 11:10:08 PM »
A

I had a double in there that I fixed....Slide #5.

Hope it helps!

Dang it!! Now I gotta go back and study some more!!! :-)
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2014, 11:34:48 PM »
It's an interesting defense and not necessarily a "face melter" as my Killer Bee can do anything done here as it already uses a "flexed" front and would do so without a single call (the "cloud" coverage replaces the "taps").  Some things the Killer Bee would do even better (stopping Wedge, covering the BB, and following the Puller).    But, unless I don't I understand what I'm looking at, aren't you giving the BB (H) one more defender than he can kick out?  And then backed up both sides with a "reaper"?  Which then leaves them with nowhere to run but the middle with trap or wedge?

Clark

The tilt I obviously picked up from you and Coach Fish.

The overload on the PT I picked up from an Associate on the semi pro circuit that had the daunting task of coaching against Conway Springs for a number of years.

The idea is to put a very QUICK NG over the Long Guard since that is the main puller. He also put a very QUICK DT over the Short Guard but we used the tilt instead. This really doesn't exclusively stop the pulling but instead puts pressure the positions designated to cover for the pull to execute perfectly.

What over loads the system is the taps happening over the Power Tackle. The DT always fans and the FS always pinches. What this does is creates a hole in the blocking in-between the Power Tackle and the Quick tackle next to him because the Quick Tackle has to cover for the pull. It also negates two blocks...the H and the Long Guard pulling because the FS comes in fast and right behind both positions so we really dont care where they are going because we just spiked both of them. This stunt can seriously disrupt Power, Sweep, Trap to the Long Side and more importantly the WB counter to the Short Side because the FS is arriving about the same time the WB is for the hand off unless he motions into a spinner look. It is VERY difficult to account for the FS if they don't stop pulling.

The DT tilt kills the trap to the Short Side. MIKE has to be an excellent tackler and a Bully Boy because Wedge will become a favorite play call.

We started using this in 2006 or so when there was a very talented Spinning SW team in our Division.  Previously we had only used the 40 front design but decided to give this idea a try. Very happy we did because during that same era we kept drawing an even better Spinning SW team in a local Post Season Tourney we played a for a few seasons. During the tourney we ran both the 40 and 50 front versions.

The film posted ran Dave's Burst Formation so the H back moves back with the S and Q backs. This presents a unique problem that we learned during the Regular Season when they beat us. What we did in the Playoff Game is designate the Long Side DE as the regulator. His job was to blow up the WB and terrorize him no matter what. If that WB tried to block...destroy him...if he vacated follow him like your pants are on fire. If he split out then default back to your 46 DE rules. Since they completely stopped going Nasty with their Y in an attempt to help double the DT in the Regular Season Game we figured they wouldn't do that anymore and they didn't...but we had to keep that WB who was a very good blocker off SAM.

So that's how this particular slide is designed. A little weak on the pass coverage but that didn't seem to hurt us. I can remember only one SW team that made me nervous passing the football and they are out there Im sure. Thing is they either Jump Pass or roll out...you will never roll out clean vs a pair of Force playing DE's...never ever ever not gonna happen so worry about the Jump Pass.

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 12:14:51 AM by mahonz »
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Offline akpoole

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Re: Defending the UBSW Offense
« Reply #74 on: June 09, 2014, 11:35:32 PM »
A hot dog is a tube steak!

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God created five seasons:  Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall, and last but definitely not least . . . FOOTBALL!!