Author Topic: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays  (Read 11323 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 7508
  • Total likes: 868
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: 6-3
  • Offense: Spread Formation
  • Title: Retired
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2015, 12:38:20 PM »
Hall Monitor and Crossing Guard  :P

Dear Mr. Kotter:

Please excuse Juan from class yesterday.

Signed
Epstiens Mother!   ;D
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24137
  • Total likes: 2464
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2015, 12:48:18 PM »
In the interest off pure simplicity, I'm considering using only zone principles for all of our schemes.  Looking for someone here to tell me it is a bad idea, as I can't really fimd much fault in it.

Basically, I plan to install Inside Zone and rep it to perfection. That will be our bread and butter. Then we can evolve to outside zone, not changing anything from IZ except technique.

Then we add QB counter and Tackle Trap, which would both be blocked the exact same, exactly like IZ, in the opposite direction.

Example, we call Trap right-entire line establishes combos and works zone as if it were zone LEFT. The only difference is the Left OT would run trap on right side EMOL (trap right). We obviously won't combo on the Left EMOL (as the tackle is trapping away from him), but we will read him. Chase (the trap), pull and and replace.

The only other run play would be Veer. Blocked again, as zone opposite.

Example, we call Veer Right. Oline blocks Zone left. Which leaves right side EMOL unblocked again, RB (aligned to the right and behind QB) target is straight ahead off of RT hip, QB reads EMOL ala veer.

Four "schemes" in one and we really limit what the Oline has to learn, allowing us to be really good at one thing, zone combos. Understand that we are a super tempo team and simplicity is our best friend. The added benefit of extra available time spent working on pass pro will help our protections as well.

I am sure this is nothing revolutionary, I just want my OLine to never have to think, at least not anything more than zone or opposite zone.

Hopefully typing on my phone, I was able to convey what I mean clearly.

What issues do you see with this approach?

C

At the end of the day do you really need anything but IZ and stretch? That is pretty much how the Mountjoy Camp thinks and it seems to work for them. Zach is in this Camp but is being pretty quite these days. He must have a thorn in his paw.  :P

You can run all counters by reversing the direction of the zone.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline Dimson

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 7495
  • Total likes: 493
  • Coaching: 14 & Under
  • Defense: Killer Bee
  • Offense: Spread Formation
  • Title: Coordinator
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2015, 01:25:08 PM »
C

At the end of the day do you really need anything but IZ and stretch? That is pretty much how the Mountjoy Camp thinks and it seems to work for them. Zach is in this Camp but is being pretty quite these days. He must have a thorn in his paw.  :P

You can run all counters by reversing the direction of the zone.
Zach is going to be a veer guy this year.

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24137
  • Total likes: 2464
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2015, 02:20:30 PM »
Zach is going to be a veer guy this year.
D

Whats that mean....veer right off the road?  :P
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline CmartCoach

  • Copper
  • Posts: 99
  • Total likes: 6
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: 3-3 Stack
  • Offense: Spread Formation
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2015, 02:26:21 PM »
C

At the end of the day do you really need anything but IZ and stretch? That is pretty much how the Mountjoy Camp thinks and it seems to work for them. Zach is in this Camp but is being pretty quite these days. He must have a thorn in his paw.  :P

You can run all counters by reversing the direction of the zone.

Yep. That's what we're doing. IZ ans stretch and zone opposite for trap/counter. We will also eventually read the frontside end with veer while zoning to the backside. Work combos like crazy, mix up "invisible" read players and throw in a little 6 route up/down passing package and we're off.
Cmart

Offline Dimson

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 7495
  • Total likes: 493
  • Coaching: 14 & Under
  • Defense: Killer Bee
  • Offense: Spread Formation
  • Title: Coordinator
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2015, 11:14:31 PM »
D

Whats that mean....veer right off the road?  :P
Whatever the result, I am really interested in seeing it!

Offline CoachCalande

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 8055
  • Total likes: 766
  • Its never been "My bad"
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: 46
  • Offense: Double Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2015, 07:24:02 AM »
If a team has its defensive linemen just teeing off on your linemen, how do you counter it? draws and screens?

The purpose of trap is to exploit over aggressive defensive line charge and fast flow lber play.
MOJO    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtcRmKnRcsA

Go to WWW.COACHCALANDE.COM  for Double Wing DVDs, Playbook, Drills Manuals, Practice footage and emagazines. Ask me about our new 38 special dvds!

Offline morris

  • Gold
  • Posts: 2927
  • Total likes: 156
  • Coaching: Middle School
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Undecided
  • Title: Other
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2015, 09:53:25 AM »
Screens, reading them, traps and counters.

Offline durfee4

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 5169
  • Total likes: 29
  • Wing-T
  • Coaching: Middle School
  • Defense: 5-3
  • Offense: Wing T
  • Title: Coordinator
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2015, 10:21:54 AM »
This play (WHAM) is a good compliment to IZ with very little change.
Success only comes before Work in the dictionary

Offline durfee4

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 5169
  • Total likes: 29
  • Wing-T
  • Coaching: Middle School
  • Defense: 5-3
  • Offense: Wing T
  • Title: Coordinator
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2015, 06:09:49 PM »
If a team has its defensive linemen just teeing off on your linemen, how do you counter it? draws and screens?

The purpose of trap is to exploit over aggressive defensive line charge and fast flow lber play.
Our Wham play does just that.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 06:38:50 PM by durfee4 »
Success only comes before Work in the dictionary

Offline ZACH

  • Administrator
  • Diamond
  • Posts: 10363
  • Total likes: 932
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: 10-1
  • Offense: One Back
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2015, 10:23:51 PM »
D

Whats that mean....veer right off the road?  :P

Yes sir...

Ive simplified in my mind Mccrae's wedge blocking principles with my zone experience.

We will still count...have line calls...and "bigger splits" ..we just wont be pro style anymore
"Some athletes have division 1 dreams and jv work ethic" - random

Offline ZACH

  • Administrator
  • Diamond
  • Posts: 10363
  • Total likes: 932
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: 10-1
  • Offense: One Back
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2015, 10:32:28 PM »
Csmart

Sounds like youre still unsure of everything even after our pms

With regards to zone and counter and veer.

Zone is "0" or "+1"
Counter...power...veer is "-1" (veer if theres only 5 dlm)

You over complicate through you looking for simplicity. 

If you can count you can block with ease... have a front that doesnt fit the count exactly make a call...thats how I started using my "+1" call
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 10:46:10 PM by ZACH »
"Some athletes have division 1 dreams and jv work ethic" - random

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24137
  • Total likes: 2464
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2015, 11:51:16 PM »
Yes sir...

Ive simplified in my mind Mccrae's wedge blocking principles with my zone experience.

We will still count...have line calls...and "bigger splits" ..we just wont be pro style anymore

Z

Will be interested to see how you like McCrae's wedge blocking ( point zone). Tried it last Spring. Made no sense too me or the kids.  :-\
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline ZACH

  • Administrator
  • Diamond
  • Posts: 10363
  • Total likes: 932
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: 10-1
  • Offense: One Back
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2015, 12:05:07 AM »
Z

Will be interested to see how you like McCrae's wedge blocking ( point zone). Tried it last Spring. Made no sense too me or the kids.  :-\

Considering we talk a lot ive made sence of it for me

Quick tutorial

-------------------T---G---C---G---T
-------------------p---v----t----v----p

By mccrea- osv is off of tackle...isv is off guard...midline off center

by Zach... trap is over center...veer is over guard...power over tackle (base blocking)

-for veer the psg makes the call bc hes our wedge "guy"

---------------------v-------1---------2
----------------v------2----0-----1----3
-------------------T---G---C---G---T

Base count works but thats not how we get there...the guard calls his guy as the center does normally is zone...we just count off of that.

If your guy is second level attach the point mans guy "combo/check/double"

If you arent on either side of the poa you chop first level and screen second level defenders

Point man finds his guy by checing from his inside gap outward first person in his "area" is the point man
"Some athletes have division 1 dreams and jv work ethic" - random

Offline morris

  • Gold
  • Posts: 2927
  • Total likes: 156
  • Coaching: Middle School
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Undecided
  • Title: Other
Re: Zone concept for counter/trap/veer plays
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2015, 06:50:22 AM »
Zach: are you using a TE?

I know we will use OSV this year and we'll just TKO it. Hell we've adapted TKO to about 90% of our offense. It has made things much easier for us. We don't need to worry about a lot of stuff.

As far as the wedge version of veer goes I see it as scoop and track. Scoop to the POA to get to your track and climb. Now it is a little more complicated but not much.