Author Topic: 2 point stance teaching progression  (Read 4927 times)

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Offline CmartCoach

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2 point stance teaching progression
« on: May 27, 2015, 11:46:32 AM »
We're getting closer to the season and I'm trying to build a better OLine "manual".

Last year we adapted a 2 pt stance based on the theory that we come off the ball more laterally and the 3 point helps with a vertical push.  Also, I think it does help eliminate the "false step" of standing up before anything else that youth OLinemen tend to employ. We are going to be sticking with it, but I'd like to be better at coaching it.

Here's the current teaching progression, I like to keep it as simple as possible, which I believe helps keep my coaches from "over coaching" it, allowing us to keep the high practice pace up.

1.  Feet- shoulder width and balanced (base)
2.  Elbows- on the thigh boards
3.  Back- Flat.
4.  Butt- Down.

Hopefully this will give my OLine coaches a few buzz words that they can use as they "coach on the run"

BASE.

FLATBACK.

BUTT DOWN.


Any other things I should be doing?
Cmart

Offline mahonz

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2015, 11:54:48 AM »
C

That is a great start IMO.
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Offline CmartCoach

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2015, 12:44:45 PM »
Good. It just seems too simple compared to the way we always taught the 3 point.
Cmart

Offline mahonz

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2015, 12:51:59 PM »
Good. It just seems too simple compared to the way we always taught the 3 point.

C


That's kinda the idea.  :)

As mentioned...watch the false stepping if that is an issue.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2015, 02:57:35 PM »
Here's the current teaching progression, I like to keep it as simple as possible, which I believe helps keep my coaches from "over coaching" it, allowing us to keep the high practice pace up.

1.  Feet- shoulder width and balanced (base)
2.  Elbows- on the thigh boards
3.  Back- Flat.
4.  Butt- Down.

We stand at the LOS with a balanced stance, but shift to a staggered stance during cadence.  We rest our forearms on our thighs.  Flat back?  That would be imperative if you preach "low man wins" but we don't so that's not a concern of ours.  Butt down?  Again, I don't care about that for us.  Doesn't matter so much what you want them to do, as long as you know exactly why you're asking them to do it.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
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Offline Joker number 8

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2015, 03:25:54 PM »
Try this instead of saying shoulder width apart:
Say Feet:
Player then lifts foot so knee goes parallel and then back down. Repeat with other foot. Player will now be a perfectly balanced position.

Todd
Todd

Offline CmartCoach

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2015, 11:17:32 AM »
We stand at the LOS with a balanced stance, but shift to a staggered stance during cadence.  We rest our forearms on our thighs.  Flat back?  That would be imperative if you preach "low man wins" but we don't so that's not a concern of ours.  Butt down?  Again, I don't care about that for us.  Doesn't matter so much what you want them to do, as long as you know exactly why you're asking them to do it.

--Dave

For us, flat back and butt down are points for us to rare the eyes are up...
Cmart

Offline Seabass

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2015, 12:43:38 AM »
We stand at the LOS with a balanced stance, but shift to a staggered stance during cadence.  We rest our forearms on our thighs.  Flat back?  That would be imperative if you preach "low man wins" but we don't so that's not a concern of ours.  Butt down?  Again, I don't care about that for us.  Doesn't matter so much what you want them to do, as long as you know exactly why you're asking them to do it.

--Dave
Can you tell me more about what is important to you for your OL? I'm coaching the position for the first time this season. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with 2 weeks to go. So if low man wins isn't critical to you what would be? I want to make sure I know the why. We are a zone blocking team.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2015, 02:55:29 AM »
I want to make sure I know the why.

Great reason, Coach.  Everyone should always want to know the "why," but many act as if they already know when they don't.

We want a body on a body.  You don't have to be the low man to do this.  If you occupy the defender, he cannot make the tackle.  We want to be first off the line.  We want to "get into" the defender's body.  We want to physically punish him.  We want the defender's attention.  If I can get the defender to engage physically/mentally/emotionally with my offensive lineman, then he is not thinking about tackling our ball-carrier.  He's thinking about either defending himself, or pushing back/fighting my offensive lineman.  We want to get their attention (through physicality and hitting them first), so their attention is diverted to our o-line.  You don't have to get low to get a body on a body.  You don't have to get low to be first off the line.  You don't have to get low to punish the defender.  But if we do these three things, then we will win the match.  That's why "low man wins" is not a priority for us.  I think the quicker, more aggressive player wins. 

--Dave
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2015, 02:59:27 AM »
I hear a lot of coaches telling their players to "get low" as if it were the be-all and end-all to offensive line success (at the youth level).  But I don't see the teaching that enforces it.  Oh, I occasionally see linemen get run through a chute.  But the whole "low man wins" thing seems (to me) more about coaches speaking in cliches ("You got to WANT it!") than actually drilling them over and over with whatever "low man" drills they have.  We don't have any "low man" drills, btw.  Do you?

--Dave
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Offline Seabass

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2015, 07:00:11 PM »
I really appreciate all of that input! I am in the process of learning how to teach this position. I am also slow learner so it's been a fairly long process that begun months ago...lol

I have always heard low man wins and in some instances (like small guys tackling big guys) I think that is true but I don't believe it to be universal. To answer your question...do I plan on drilling anything to that nature with my OL...no.

My plan is to start with stance...move to first step....and then hands. It seems like the foundation of getting off the ball first has to start with being in a stance that puts you at the right starting point to get the quickest first step possible. My belief is that the advantage should go to the player who is first to get hands on his opponent in a violent manner. If I get to you first with enough force... you are likely to be unbalanced and I should have control. If we arrive at the same time it should be a push, no pun intended.

My plan was to work on those various steps against air then pads and eventually real people.

Is that misguided?



Offline CoachDP

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2015, 11:39:38 AM »
Is that misguided?
Unfortunately, yes.  I believe you are completely misguided.  Why not give me a call when you have some time and let me go through this with you?

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

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Offline Michael

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2015, 11:58:37 AM »
My belief is that the advantage should go to the player who is first to get hands on his opponent in a violent manner.

One year at a few Glaziers I asked D-Line coaches (two NFL, and one D1, I think, unless it was the other way around) what O-Line actions caused them the most trouble.

Every one of them said, word for word, "The guys who get their hands on you right away."

In other news, I asked a D1 D-Line coach once what he thought of the run fits we try to get.

He said something like, "That would be a bitch for us."

So I have that going for me, which is nice.
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Offline Seabass

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2015, 01:26:33 PM »
Dave- Can we speak today? I have a 5 hour drive today. I am assuming your contact is on here somewhere.


Michael- I played with the Lama once.....big hitter da lama.

Offline Bruceja

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Re: 2 point stance teaching progression
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2015, 02:05:19 PM »
I love the idea of 2 pt. stance but I just got an email from Tim Murphy saying that it will kill the double teams and down blocks, great for pullers. I have not done 2 pt yet just thought I would share. I still like the idea and DP has a stellar PowerPoint on the subject