Author Topic: Zone Reach Blocking?  (Read 5111 times)

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Offline Roden10

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Zone Reach Blocking?
« on: December 19, 2010, 01:32:19 AM »
I was looking at different ways to block in the single wing offense. I turned the plays around from how I have them drawn up and looked at them from a defensive point of view. Its amazing how turning a piece of paper around can change your perception on the blocking.

Anyway what I came up with is like this offense that I found on fastnfurious. I am going to attach it so people can look at it and understand what I'm talking about.

When I drew it up I started thinking this looks like S.A.B. or T.K.O. neither of which I am real familiar with. So I started researching those and it seams the blockers are always going away from the POA. Which wasn't what I had come up with. When I say came up with, I don't mean I decided to use it. I just drew it out and then thought I could find directions somewhere for doing it that way. But I didn't until I found this offense on fastnfurious. Which I converted to pdf so hopefully its easy to open.

The point of my longwindedness is has anyone tried this style of blocking and if so what was your experience with it?
 

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Tim


If your feet aren't moving, you're not blocking!

Offline Coach Kyle

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2010, 01:50:10 AM »
I was looking at different ways to block in the single wing offense. I turned the plays around from how I have them drawn up and looked at them from a defensive point of view. Its amazing how turning a piece of paper around can change your perception on the blocking.

Anyway what I came up with is like this offense that I found on fastnfurious. I am going to attach it so people can look at it and understand what I'm talking about.

When I drew it up I started thinking this looks like S.A.B. or T.K.O. neither of which I am real familiar with. So I started researching those and it seams the blockers are always going away from the POA. Which wasn't what I had come up with. When I say came up with, I don't mean I decided to use it. I just drew it out and then thought I could find directions somewhere for doing it that way. But I didn't until I found this offense on fastnfurious. Which I converted to pdf so hopefully its easy to open.

The point of my longwindedness is has anyone tried this style of blocking and if so what was your experience with it?
My understanding of zone blocking is that all the players look towards the play side. If there is a man on or in the gap toward the play side, they try to hook that man. If there is a man in the gap away from the play side, and no man on or towards the play side, they will help that team mate block that person. After they have helped that person, they will go to the second level.

What that usually causes is a hole to hope up in the C to D gap. This gap is caused because the TE has no support. So when he tries to hook, he is either successful, and the hole opens up, or the DE doesn't let him hook, and the hole opens up in the C gap because the DE has to move out with the TE to avoid getting hooked.

So if you see this:
.......................x
....................x....x
......o.o.o.0.o.o.o

The tackle will help the guard, and then get to the second level once the guard hooks.

I've also seen it where teams let the TE go to the safety, and they just kick out the DE.

Also, the back side of the line usually just cuts the two backside Dlinemen, instead of having the full back take the trailing DE out.

Offline coachbob

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2010, 03:40:41 AM »
I was looking at different ways to block in the single wing offense. I turned the plays around from how I have them drawn up and looked at them from a defensive point of view. Its amazing how turning a piece of paper around can change your perception on the blocking.

Anyway what I came up with is like this offense that I found on fastnfurious. I am going to attach it so people can look at it and understand what I'm talking about.

When I drew it up I started thinking this looks like S.A.B. or T.K.O. neither of which I am real familiar with. So I started researching those and it seams the blockers are always going away from the POA. Which wasn't what I had come up with. When I say came up with, I don't mean I decided to use it. I just drew it out and then thought I could find directions somewhere for doing it that way. But I didn't until I found this offense on fastnfurious. Which I converted to pdf so hopefully its easy to open.

The point of my longwindedness is has anyone tried this style of blocking and if so what was your experience with it?

Forget about reach blocking. Most kids cannot even think about doing it right. I have seen only one team below age 14 that did a good job of zone blocking, and that team had 18 starters that had played together 5-6 years and they were all studs.

Are you running Single Wing? Find a good playbook that has simple blocking rules like GOD/SAB/GOL and go with that. You will not have success trying to build a youth offense on reach/zone blocking.

Offline davecisar

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2010, 08:05:19 AM »
Very few MMP type kids reach block well
In youth football your MMP kids most often time play O-line
In youth football you often times have DEs playing MUCH wider than in HS/College/Pros- which make them very difficult to reach block- especially if they are sweep concious and getting upfield quickly
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2010, 11:36:45 AM »
Tim

SAB can certainly track play side. That is basically a poor mans outside zone. TKO somebody has to be coming play side whether it’s the track or the kick outs. TKO is an amp’d version of SAB that is more sound.

When you SAB play side you probably need to protect backside for a second so you can use a back or a lineman. TKO typically builds a wall using SAB backside and then applies the kick outs front side. But you could just as well reverse both ideas.

SAB play side with an UB line works well because you have an extra linemen on the long side to use to protect backside saving your backs to do other stuff.

The thing that has put SAB rules down the list with many coaches it the fact that by rule, double teams are accidental. Not what a lot of us want.

Now this reach zone you are looking at is for speed sweeping. Very doable because you do not need to concern yourself with any defender beyond the backside 2 tech. What you need to concern yourself with is the front side EMOL and the next defender inside of him. 

YET…if you cant reach the front side EMOL then you should probably research Red Light / Green Light principles by Mark Speckmen. Problem solved.

We do not have our backside linemen reaching or tracking. They are protecting their inside gap first if on a 2 or 1 tech as they release and headhunt downfield.

If you get really good at the speed sweep mesh then line up a DL with no backside OL. Then see how close they get to your speed sweeper before they actually disrupt. The results will amaze you. If you are running Rocket Sweeps from the gun you may not even have to worry about a backside 1 tech. Just let those defenders chase until their tongues start dragging in the dirt.

So...if you are going to speed sweep put your stud muffins playside so they can reach and your regular muffins backside so they can headhunt and have some fun. Done deal.

Coach Mike
 
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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2010, 12:31:08 PM »
Besides the Drive or On block, the next hardest block to execute is the Reach.   Th first block requires strength and leverage while the Reach block is almost pure technique.  In this case you must be mindful that a good block does not require the blocker to overpower the defender.  The offensive Tackle or Tight End must get into the proper position to keep the defender from getting past his outside shoulder even though the defender is already at least one body width outside of him.   The Reach block requires fast feet and great hands to ensure the turn is accomplished. 

As Dave C points out, the youth game often has DE too far outside the OT or TE to effectively "reach" them.  Same holds true for a Zone scheme.   In this instance the OT or TE has to turn them outside OR you have to have help.  That help can be in the form of a weak side player G or T trapping, motioning  a WR to that point, or having the FB kick out.  You have to be aware that many youth defenses align to take away the sweeps.       
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2010, 12:39:28 PM »
You will not have success trying to build a youth offense on reach/zone blocking.

Bob

Please explain...in detail...because I completly disagree.

Thanks

Coach Mike
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Offline Roden10

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2010, 12:40:27 PM »
Thanks Coaches.

I wouldnt reach the DE I would kick him out with a BB or seal him in with the WB if he lined up inside of him. But I understand what you are all saying.

Mike,
After posting that last night I looked at it some more and realized that it was for sweeping. I should do more research before I post stuff or maybe not late at night! I do like the concept though. Thanks for all the information. Very helpful.

I am just trying to think outside the box a little.
Tim


If your feet aren't moving, you're not blocking!

Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2010, 12:45:36 PM »
Besides the Drive or On block, the next hardest block to execute is the Reach.   Th first block requires strength and leverage while the Reach block is almost pure technique.  In this case you must be mindful that a good block does not require the blocker to overpower the defender.  The offensive Tackle or Tight End must get into the proper position to keep the defender from getting past his outside shoulder even though the defender is already at least one body width outside of him.   The Reach block requires fast feet and great hands to ensure the turn is accomplished. 

As Dave C points out, the youth game often has DE too far outside the OT or TE to effectively "reach" them.  Same holds true for a Zone scheme.   In this instance the OT or TE has to turn them outside OR you have to have help.  That help can be in the form of a weak side player G or T trapping, motioning  a WR to that point, or having the FB kick out.  You have to be aware that many youth defenses align to take away the sweeps.     

Shad

Why does the speed sweeper HAVE to go around the EMOL?

Why not underneath the EMOL?

Yes...it makes little sense to aimlessly run speed sweeps while depending fully on a TE reaching a DE that may be a full yard outside of him...but there are ways to make it work well by formation / backfield actions.

Coach Mike
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2010, 12:47:13 PM »
I am just trying to think outside the box a little.


...which is always a good thing.

Coach Mike
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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2010, 01:05:08 PM »
Shad

Why does the speed sweeper HAVE to go around the EMOL?

Why not underneath the EMOL?

Yes...it makes little sense to aimlessly run speed sweeps while depending fully on a TE reaching a DE that may be a full yard outside of him...but there are ways to make it work well by formation / backfield actions.

Coach Mike


I agree Mike you can indeed go under him.  As I indicated you can decide to have the OT or TE block them outside.  I didn't carry the thought out completely by saying you would go inside that block.  (Bad coach! sits in corner and hangs head)  ;)     
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2010, 01:27:09 PM »

I agree Mike you can indeed go under him.  As I indicated you can decide to have the OT or TE block them outside.  I didn't carry the thought out completely by saying you would go inside that block.  (Bad coach! sits in corner and hangs head)  ;)   

LOL...hardly...get out of your corner !

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Offline Jburk

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2010, 12:28:55 AM »
Jack Gregory has some great stuff on perimeter blocking. Pin blocking (pinning the playside shoulder); I was just re reading this material again today in his book.
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Offline morris

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2010, 11:19:57 AM »
There are teams that use a track system for running wide/OZ.  Trinity HS in Louisville's whole run game is based on get on a track and go.  So I think you can use TKO/SAB way of thinking to run an wide zone style play.  The way you control the backside defenders is with a boot fake or some other offensive player.

Now as far as the playbook goes.  If one did not take a look it is an offense based on Rocket and Jet.  When run right you don't have to block anyone from the PS C gap back on Rocket.  So everyone behind the C gap takes a directional step and just runs.  Make contact with whatever happens to try to cross your face on the 2nd level and never chase.  That is what they are referring in the playbooks about zone.  Jet you don't have to block anything from the PS B gap back.  You use the same blocking for the most part as rocket except you try to take inside hand to outside shoulder on the PS C gap out.

As far as running up inside the contain.  We teach everything as with the "yellow" sweep concept which is the read sweep of the Fly teams.  Red is the off tackle sweep and green is the get to the sideline and go sweep. When we teach yellow we teach "see butt cut" so if they see the butt of their blocker they cut it up.

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Zone Reach Blocking?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2010, 06:49:34 PM »
Morris:

Follow the butts is a great mantra. 

Folks the situations are rarely going to be perfect.  Teaching the Running back to read the Butts (with some sense) is just about the best thing you can do.  Sometimes the hole just aint there. 

That being said what do you want from them in those instances? 

I am one of those who preach square up and drive the pile as far as you can.   If it's a passing play throw it away and live another play.   
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