Author Topic: Inside Zone Combos  (Read 12980 times)

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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2016, 11:33:12 AM »
Matt

Very often the DL can split the combo when one man leaves. We call that the "Sling Shot Effect" because the DL gets leverage as one man leaves. In order to prevent this we coach it, the 2 hands is important so the OL understands how to maintain leverage. If he can readjust & bring his second hand into play while dropping his hips he will win that battle.

Joe
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Offline coachmsl

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2016, 11:42:17 AM »
I appreciate your offer, but this thread is not for me.

oo7

We can add scheme if you want.  You seem knowledgeable and willing to share.  I don't want to exclude your input.  Lets say its a 33 stack and im in a singleback 2 TE set.

Matt
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Offline coachmsl

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2016, 11:43:42 AM »
007

We run IZ several different ways. It isn't always a read, & we do read different players according to a call. At the Youth level I tended to be a little simpler, not because we couldn't do all the variations but we didn't have enough practice time to work them all.

Believe it or not,the head up stack is actually easier to block & teach than the gap stack. Download my Power Point I go into some detail & it's a starting point. Then if you have questions it will be easier to talk the same language.

Joe


Why is the Gap Stack tougher Joe
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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2016, 11:52:18 AM »
oo7

We can add scheme if you want.  You seem knowledgeable and willing to share.  I don't want to exclude your input.  Lets say its a 33 stack and im in a singleback 2 TE set.

Matt
I wasn't upset that you asked not to put scheme in.
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Offline coachmsl

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2016, 11:52:52 AM »
Matt

Very often the DL can split the combo when one man leaves. We call that the "Sling Shot Effect" because the DL gets leverage as one man leaves. In order to prevent this we coach it, the 2 hands is important so the OL understands how to maintain leverage. If he can readjust & bring his second hand into play while dropping his hips he will win that battle.

Joe


What leverage does an OL want to maintain?  I say this because I hear a lot of "take him where he wants to go" talk, which ended up pretty passive on the field for me.
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Offline coachmsl

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2016, 11:55:08 AM »
I don't think you can leave out the scheme. The scheme is how you determine what and how you drill. But I will play along.  The way I learned it, that defensive tackle, I assume is the read player. Drive that tackle out with good shove. Don't get to deep, or turned too much. You must be able to square up to plug backer.   You want the ball to go back door. The pre snap play side backer should never make the play. If the bounces out, you are more than likely bleeped. That backer takes 1 step forward, the double is off. and he is on that backer right now. It happens fast. True double team it is not, according to your picture with no scheme.

I would like to hear more about your experiences that lead you to this statement.
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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2016, 12:11:27 PM »
I would like to hear more about your experiences that lead you to this statement.
We run a really screwed up version of dtdw. And we run super power so many times, that every once in a while can sneak our fullback with an underneath handoff into backside A Gap or farther out,  and not a defender in sight. When I first saw it,  I thought it was gimmicky, and it really is as far as my fellow coaches are concerned, but what it really is a quick hitting inside zone play to some extent. Trap serves the same purpose, but we don't have the structure/organization to make it work.
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2016, 12:21:57 PM »
Matt

Remember IZ we want to get vertical, OZ is more take them where they want to go & let the back cut. The eleverage for us is always the Zone side.

The gap stack is always more difficult because  it tends to more direct with less movement. That is not to say we don't work on the head up stacks just that we start with the gap stack.

Joe
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Offline coachmsl

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2016, 12:37:14 PM »
Joe would you consider the MLB and 3 tech a gap stack in your 44?
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2016, 12:38:34 PM »
Matt

Yes, it's the same.

Joe
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Offline blockandtackle

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2016, 01:03:53 PM »
Happy Thanksgiving All

I like teaching man blocking with the OL face to the aiming point = chest/armpit of the DL.  We get good results.  This year (4th grade team) we didn't use Combos.  Had good success.  In years past (4th - 8th), the combo was not effective for me.  It was passive when we coached 4 eyes on backers, but otherwise they never left the DL block.

In stack situations, I WANT to combo, but cant knock those chilling memories of that unblocked backer.  To which I would say every time "Johny didn't come off".

I need to hear how you successfully coached the Technique of the IZ Combo. 

Thanks

Matt

For us, we do it at the HS level by NOT teaching the combo as a thing.

We teach zone as "block your play side gap."  Fire out with shoulders square to the LOS, keep your eyes in the play side gap, and block what shows.  Nothing gets to cross your face.

So if there's a DL in the play side gap, we'll blow him out like a board drill.  If a DL stunts into the play side gap, then you still blow him out because he's in the gap.

If there's no DL in the play side gap or shaded anywhere on you, step play side with eyes on your gap, looking for a defender threatening it, and work vertically "up through the cylinder" to LB.

Now, if there's a DL head up or shaded backside, but not clearly in the play side gap, we'll work vertically with a "one armed bench press" technique straight up through his play side number with our inside arm.  Eyes stay in the play side gap, but we'll work halfway so our backside teammate can overtake the block.  If he pinches away from us, we don't worry about that because we have to be concerned with our own gap.

That last bit is how we get our combos without really teaching them as a special thing.

I've taught 4 hands on the DL, 4 eyes on the LBs in the past and it led to kids turning their shoulders and being in bad position to pick up LB run throughs, if they ever came off at all.  It also led to situations where both OL would come off at once and let the DL go free.  I like the technique I described above much better.

That last bit is how we get our combos.

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2016, 01:44:41 PM »
A

That is our OZ philosophy, IZ is all about the combo's & getting vertical. We use both.

Joe
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Offline coachmsl

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2016, 01:49:52 PM »
For us, we do it at the HS level by NOT teaching the combo as a thing.

We teach zone as "block your play side gap."  Fire out with shoulders square to the LOS, keep your eyes in the play side gap, and block what shows.  Nothing gets to cross your face.

So if there's a DL in the play side gap, we'll blow him out like a board drill.  If a DL stunts into the play side gap, then you still blow him out because he's in the gap.

If there's no DL in the play side gap or shaded anywhere on you, step play side with eyes on your gap, looking for a defender threatening it, and work vertically "up through the cylinder" to LB.

Now, if there's a DL head up or shaded backside, but not clearly in the play side gap, we'll work vertically with a "one armed bench press" technique straight up through his play side number with our inside arm.  Eyes stay in the play side gap, but we'll work halfway so our backside teammate can overtake the block.  If he pinches away from us, we don't worry about that because we have to be concerned with our own gap.

That last bit is how we get our combos without really teaching them as a special thing.

I've taught 4 hands on the DL, 4 eyes on the LBs in the past and it led to kids turning their shoulders and being in bad position to pick up LB run throughs, if they ever came off at all.  It also led to situations where both OL would come off at once and let the DL go free.  I like the technique I described above much better.

That last bit is how we get our combos.
 

Coach

Do you do anything to help out your center?
Can you tell me about what the GCG would do for a 2i tech to the playside and backside. 
What makes the grass grow?...........BLOOD!

Offline coachmsl

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2016, 01:52:02 PM »
 

Coach

Do you do anything to help out your center?
Can you tell me about what the GCG would do for a 2i tech to the playside and backside.

Sorry you answered this already. 
What makes the grass grow?...........BLOOD!

Offline coachmsl

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Re: Inside Zone Combos
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2016, 01:55:11 PM »


O

This is why we are always very specific which hand we punch with. I agree agree with what you are saying as far 90/10, I just don't teach it that way to keep things simple. The punch for us is always with the hand opposite the Zone call. This makes the Zone side hand ready for the re adjustment.

Joe


Where is the head placement of the post man?
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