Author Topic: What's Difficult About the Pull?  (Read 5028 times)

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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2017, 01:02:54 AM »
How do you teach pulling? With a bucket step or a cross over step?

In DTDW with TKO, always a crossover. In fact, we even stopped calling it a "pull" and called it a "tunnel block".

In Megawide splits, lawnmower all the way.
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Offline Dimson

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2017, 09:46:16 AM »
In DTDW with TKO, always a crossover. In fact, we even stopped calling it a "pull" and called it a "tunnel block".

In Megawide splits, lawnmower all the way.
Lawnmower?

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2017, 09:53:54 AM »
Lawnmower?

Let's say you're a left guard, pulling to the right. Reach down and start your lawn mower (rope start) with your right hand, pulling your elbow back hard and stepping 90 degrees with your right foot (bucket step), so that you are now parallel to the LOS. Now, run and block.

With our splits, precision is not a consideration. Plenty of room.
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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2017, 09:56:06 AM »
In DTDW with TKO, always a crossover. In fact, we even stopped calling it a "pull" and called it a "tunnel block".

In Megawide splits, lawnmower all the way.
I don't look at what we were doing as a pull either. Especially if you are recessed as far back as possible. With a full recess you can almost just cross over and we taught it that way for a while. More recently I taught a drop step after a conversation with Joe's oline coach. It worked for the kids who did it. I don't micromanage that. If a kid felt more comfortable with a more traditional pull then I let them do it. Last season (with an emphasis on last) I couldn't get my header to agree with a max recess so the cross over wasn't really an option.

Offline CoachCalande

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2017, 03:32:56 PM »
In reading some threads, I become reminded about the difficulty in teaching the pull successfully.  Some coaches simply refuse to teach it because it's too hard or takes too much time.  I am hoping to see a list of what coaches find challenging about teaching the pull.

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Absolutely nothing

Teach it, demonstrate it, drill it, correct, practice etc.
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Offline blockandtackle

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2017, 03:36:05 PM »
Let's say you're a left guard, pulling to the right. Reach down and start your lawn mower (rope start) with your right hand, pulling your elbow back hard and stepping 90 degrees with your right foot (bucket step), so that you are now parallel to the LOS. Now, run and block.

With our splits, precision is not a consideration. Plenty of room.

Good stuff.

A little tip, as I've mentioned here a few times, is to have him throw a hard rip with the backside arm (here, that would be the left arm) on the second step to help him get moving out of the blocks.

With trap, we've found the 1st step really needs to be at more like a 45 degree angle, or at least somewhere between a 90 and a 45.  He's not pulling flat to the LOS: he's going up into the LOS at an angle ("back and attack") to get his head on the inside of the DT we're trapping.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2017, 05:41:33 PM »
Good stuff.

A little tip, as I've mentioned here a few times, is to have him throw a hard rip with the backside arm (here, that would be the left arm) on the second step to help him get moving out of the blocks.
Noted. I'll make sure to add that to my coaching points.

Quote
With trap, we've found the 1st step really needs to be at more like a 45 degree angle, or at least somewhere between a 90 and a 45.  He's not pulling flat to the LOS: he's going up into the LOS at an angle ("back and attack") to get his head on the inside of the DT we're trapping.

I think with our splits, our puller will be flat and might even be working backwards a little. We'll see. The team we're playing is ripe for a trap, or at least have my guard pull and kick. I just scouted them today and they are in a 44, playing 2 Techs and 9 Techs.
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2017, 06:36:10 PM »
L
 
Since we have large Splits also, our line is back so it's important the angle is tight off the center's butt.

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Offline Seabass

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2017, 04:43:48 PM »
I have never found it difficult to pull linemen. Sometimes those guys don't make great open field blocks because they can tend to be "out over their ski's". Same way they miss open field tackles. They are out of control. The act of pulling and getting them where they need to be has never been difficult.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2017, 09:58:42 AM »
The pull itself isn't hard, especially if the puller starts in a 2-pt. stance.  What's hard is what happens next.  The puller might have a relatively hard or relatively easy assignment, depending on how far the puller has to go to his target.

But even once they get that down, teams can still have trouble implementing pull assignments as part of their offense because they can't cover the puller's space vs. penetr'n.  Our 9U team has abandoned pulling for that reason, because of a certain subtlety of wing T scheme that eludes many of the coaches in the club.  The whole club is trying to run versions of Newton HS's recently-installed wing T scheme.  However, they're using splits that are too wide and not recessing the OL -- contradicting the written instructions that the HS uses, apparently!  2 days ago we were scrimmaging up vs. the Super PeeWees (10U -- "Super" really means "Infra"  ;) ), and their coach even "corrected" our OL as they lined up once for "giving up" space!  The Super PeeWees do cross-block, though.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2017, 10:55:12 AM »
Well, the pull itself wasn't in issue. Looked really good, actually. The problem for us turned out to be a combination of distance traveled and the environment he is running through. With mega splits, we have never been about moving bodies. Get in the way, stay in the way, butt to the ball. Got a lesson in physics last night when one of our gifted athletes was playing a 1 and 2 tech against us. He put our newbie guard 2 yards in the backfield. Normally, we're okay with that. Sounds crazy, I know . . .but it works . . . normally. Doesn't work when he's in the way of our other pulling guard. When we went the other way, he was putting our "people mover" one yard into the backfield and getting in the way of THAT guard.

OC is moaning about how this isn't working. I'm moaning about why the hell aren't we trapping HIM instead of the guy outside of him. There are actually a half dozen good reasons not to trap him with a guard.  Anyway, Mahonz was listening and offered up the wham. So rather than hammer away at square pegs and round holes, we will wham our H back on our traps. Makes a ton of sense based on what I saw last night. It's going in tonight.
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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2017, 01:23:56 PM »
Well, the pull itself wasn't in issue. Looked really good, actually. The problem for us turned out to be a combination of distance traveled and the environment he is running through. With mega splits, we have never been about moving bodies. Get in the way, stay in the way, butt to the ball. Got a lesson in physics last night when one of our gifted athletes was playing a 1 and 2 tech against us. He put our newbie guard 2 yards in the backfield. Normally, we're okay with that. Sounds crazy, I know . . .but it works . . . normally. Doesn't work when he's in the way of our other pulling guard. When we went the other way, he was putting our "people mover" one yard into the backfield and getting in the way of THAT guard.

OC is moaning about how this isn't working. I'm moaning about why the hell aren't we trapping HIM instead of the guy outside of him. There are actually a half dozen good reasons not to trap him with a guard.  Anyway, Mahonz was listening and offered up the wham. So rather than hammer away at square pegs and round holes, we will wham our H back on our traps. Makes a ton of sense based on what I saw last night. It's going in tonight.
I don't see the point much with pulling with mega splits in beast.

Offline Michael

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2017, 01:29:33 PM »
I don't see the point much with pulling with mega splits in beast.

We would have needed cross country runners.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2017, 01:54:35 PM »
I don't see the point much with pulling with mega splits in beast.

Nah, this wasn't beast. It was our "Pro Ace Mega Wing/empty hybrid"

However. . . I toyed with the idea of pulling in Beast. The logic was getting a "wasted" guard to kick the EMLOS frees my middle sniffer to climb. The problem was getting the rest of the staff to stop laughing long enough to explain it.
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Online DumCoach

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Re: What's Difficult About the Pull?
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2017, 04:13:09 PM »
I haven't found teaching the mechanics of the pull to be all that difficult.  However the challenging part for me has been ensuring the the puller actually makes contact with the defender when he gets where he's going.

This! 
I remember coaching 7's to run Toss by pulling BS guard and tackle.  Got them to pull flat and hit the proper hole.  They both went through with big smiles and bright shiny faces.  They were so proud of themselves!

They didn't block a soul.   ::)

Trying to get them to pull while looking at their man caused them to lose that great pull (Too hard to keep their eyes on their man and run the pull route.).  It was like trying to teach them to tie their shoes blindfolded and so still no blocks made.

So, for Toss right, I had left guard (LG) put his right hand on QB's left shoulderpad and left Tackle (LT) put his right hand on LG's left shoulderpad.  I called it the "choo-choo" train with QB the "engine", LG the "boxcar", and LT the "caboose".  QB led through the hole.  LG was to separate from QB as soon as he made the turn and block first wrong colored jersey inside.  When LT saw LG and QB divide, he (actually she) ran through the space between them and took first wrong colored jersey (On paper, FS). 

Gain was maybe 4 yards tops.  Problem:  QB was not big enough to block corner, LG got run over by stud LBer, and LT missed in space.

So... next solution.
"Choo-choo" train now went through the hole but stayed together.  RB put his left hand on QB's right shoulderpad and the entire train went through the hole with QB leading and headed right at the corner (or OLB). QB aimed at defender's outside shoulder. 

Four blockers (LT, LG, QB, RB) hit that defender in a "flying wedge".  We called it "Casey Jones'ing" the defender.  He was nowhere to be seen.  Meanwhile, FS and stud LBer couldn't get through the wedge.

First try, touchdown!

Really a strange looking TD.  They were going about 8 mph in order to stay together but scored from 40 yards out.  Nobody was more surprised than me. 





 
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