Author Topic: What is your idea of conditioning?  (Read 3744 times)

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Offline Vince148

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What is your idea of conditioning?
« on: January 02, 2018, 11:17:15 AM »
I was going through some of DP's stuff over the weekend. I was actually looking for information about the Circle of Death. All the links in the various threads here for Jack are taking me to a dead site. I did incorporate it early in my coaching career, but got away from it later. So, if anyone has that info, I'd appreciate it.

Anyway, going through DP's slides got me thinking about what actually is "conditioning"? I recall on one of his slides about his first two days, he takes the first hour of the first practice to do his "tryouts". The second hour is "conditioning". I'm curious what that means to different coaches. If it's lots of "running", that's certainly not me. I spend most of my first couple of practices teaching blocking and tackling technique. The only "conditioning" that I do is reserved for the last 10-15 minutes. The last couple of years, I've been using my "Ladder from Hell". You start with 10 burpees, 10 pushups, 10 sit-ups, and a 5-10-5. Then you progress to 9, then 8...and finally to 1. It's always 1 5-10-5. It definitely is a mental toughness drill. Give them ample rest between ladders. However, I only used it for the first 2-3 practices. But that is pretty much it in regards to conditioning. Maybe I'll change it to "Ladder of Death" to go with the "Circle of Death".                                   
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 11:25:43 AM by Vince148 »

Offline ZACH

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2018, 11:26:04 AM »
Conditioning is the ability  of recovery vs stress.

Sport specific conditioning is just putting game stressors in practice conditions.

You build the rate of an athletes recovery by the stress you put on it...

All year we have hard,  moderate, and light days. Usually in that order. During aug thats 2 hard days a week if we don't have a scrimmage.

Too many hard days in a row will set you backwards and people will start to get injured.

We dont run to condition... we have sled sessions, perfect plays sets, multiple min drills.  Multiple special steams drills, pursuit to tackle.

I feel like most coaches turn there kids into burpess queens or track stars which have no relation to the sport and their kids get tired either way and so goes the woes of uneducated coaches
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 11:28:36 AM by ZACH »
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2018, 12:07:42 PM »
I've already described our plyo routine. That's part of the conditioning and starts from Day 1.

Early in each season, we run every player through our route tree. 5 receiver positions, 2 player QBs and 3 coaches all throwing balls. They end up running intervals for 30 minutes, but are oblivious to the fact that they are running.

This is all to get the physically prepared for the grind of football.

However, an important component is the mental toughness aspect. That's where Jack's Enduro comes in. Mahonz has a similar drill that involves hill runs and is done roughly once a week early in the season. We didn't do it with our last group in the last 2 seasons, though.

It's all about overcoming the mental aspects of pain, fatigue and discomfort. My little twist to it is the "us against the world" aspect. I try to take the opportunity to teach the kids to band together to overcome a common enemy. In this case, the enemy happens to be Mahonz.  ;D Sort of a "Don't give the prick the satisfaction of seeing you quit. Make eye contact with a teammate and let him fill your emotional gas tank."

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Offline mahonz

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2018, 03:02:12 PM »
I've already described our plyo routine. That's part of the conditioning and starts from Day 1.

Early in each season, we run every player through our route tree. 5 receiver positions, 2 player QBs and 3 coaches all throwing balls. They end up running intervals for 30 minutes, but are oblivious to the fact that they are running.

This is all to get the physically prepared for the grind of football.

However, an important component is the mental toughness aspect. That's where Jack's Enduro comes in. Mahonz has a similar drill that involves hill runs and is done roughly once a week early in the season. We didn't do it with our last group in the last 2 seasons, though.

It's all about overcoming the mental aspects of pain, fatigue and discomfort. My little twist to it is the "us against the world" aspect. I try to take the opportunity to teach the kids to band together to overcome a common enemy. In this case, the enemy happens to be Mahonz.  ;D Sort of a "Don't give the prick the satisfaction of seeing you quit. Make eye contact with a teammate and let him fill your emotional gas tank."

We lost our hill when they moved us to Drake.  :(
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Offline chucknduck

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2018, 03:21:35 PM »
I won't dedicate any practice time to conditioning.  We just practice at a very fast pace.  The conditioning just happens on its own.

Now, as an AC, I don't have full control. At the high school that I last coached I would have our team completely gassed after a screen period and our two minute drill.  Practice should've been done right there.  The head guy would make them line up on the sideline and run back and forth across the field for a good twenty minutes.  Sometimes he'd eliminate our two minute drill so we could get our running in.
Half the team would show up with their ankles taped due to shin splints.  He'd have them running just as much the next day.
I argued with him and our line coach all the time.  Guys would get dizzy or be limping and I'd pull them out.  The line coach said I was babying them.
I got the hell out of there before the season started.  So did a lot of players.


Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2018, 06:26:32 PM »
I consider conditioning to be bldg. long-term endurance.  Like a printed program I was handed when I was playing rugby, to be done over the summer between spring & fall season.  I think it took a minimum of 7 weeks, graded sprints, to be done after a distance run, but I never did the distance run.  You were to judge progress by your ability to keep your pulse under a certain figure.

I would never do that sort of thing with kids I coach in football.  For one thing, I don't think it'd work unless you had that amount of time before pre-season began, nor would I expect kids to do it 5-6 days/week over that time as prescribed.  For another, I don't think children need or benefit from that kind of conditioning for football.  I wrote last season about how I never saw them breathing hard in games the way they did from the sprints our coaches made them do, even though we had a roster of only 15.  If they were playing rugby, they'd have more need of it.  Some kids actually love doing the sprints if you make races out of them, but others are just bored or bothered by them, and we're here to play football, not run track.

If I could have kids work on anything truly off-season, it'd probably be weight lifting, & for those who groove to that, fine, but even there I think a little technique (which you can coach) or size (which you can't) beats a lot of strength.  For safety's sake, though, I would like them to strengthen the muscles that dorsiflex the neck, and considering that the time they'll have for that will probably be at home (no partners, no equipment), I'd expect that to be accomplished by back bridges.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 06:28:50 PM by Bob Goodman »

Offline CoachDP

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2018, 08:05:58 PM »
I was going through some of DP's stuff over the weekend. I was actually looking for information about the Circle of Death.

--Vince, if you're interested in this drill, I'd suggest you give me a call, as there are so many ways to run it incorrectly.


I recall on one of his slides about his first two days, he takes the first hour of the first practice to do his "tryouts". The second hour is "conditioning".

--Actually, it's the first three weeks.  Hour 1 (Week 1) was position try-outs where everyone throws, catches, kicks, punts, deep-snaps and gets timed in sprints.  Hour 2 was conditioning: Dynamics, Frog Hops, Bunny Hops, Crab Walks, Lame Dogs, Backwards Bear Crawls, Squatting Backwards Hops, Bellies, Circle of Death, and so on.  Hour 1 (Week 2) was Position Drills.  Hour 1 (Week 3) was Scheme Install.

We learned that the more we demanded of our players (physically and mentally), the more they gave us.  The more they learned to play through drills that required  long-term, high intensity effort, the more they learned to consistently play that way.  We observed that in many other practices, coaches weren't demanding practices that required great effort, but then wanted great effort from their players on game day.  In our approach, our players learned that the only way to play was through giving great effort.  We didn't have to ask for it on game day.  It was the only way they had learned from us to play.

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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2018, 11:55:59 AM »
Conditioning is the ability  of recovery vs stress.

Sport specific conditioning is just putting game stressors in practice conditions.

You build the rate of an athletes recovery by the stress you put on it...

All year we have hard,  moderate, and light days. Usually in that order. During aug thats 2 hard days a week if we don't have a scrimmage.

Too many hard days in a row will set you backwards and people will start to get injured.

We dont run to condition... we have sled sessions, perfect plays sets, multiple min drills.  Multiple special steams drills, pursuit to tackle.

I feel like most coaches turn there kids into burpess queens or track stars which have no relation to the sport and their kids get tired either way and so goes the woes of uneducated coaches
Exactly, conditioning should mimic the sport you are playing. High intensity football drills with a high speed practice is all we ever needed. We ran hurry up 100% of the time and the other teams were always gassed long before we were even though I know many of them ran sprints every day.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2018, 12:24:08 PM »
I know many of them ran sprints every day.

Running sprints is just a waste of time.  Coaches who make their kids "take a lap" after warm-ups inevitably end up yelling, "Don't be last!" as they wait for Little Billy and Fat Freddy.  That's often followed with, "You better run!"  (Or else, what?  You're going to make him run [I mean, walk] again?)

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The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2018, 01:23:58 PM »
Running sprints is just a waste of time.  Coaches who make their kids "take a lap" after warm-ups inevitably end up yelling, "Don't be last!" as they wait for Little Billy and Fat Freddy.  That's often followed with, "You better run!"  (Or else, what?  You're going to make him run [I mean, walk] again?)

--Dave
Coaches talk to me about how we did things. One of the first things I talk to them is about conditioning and the first part of that is always running laps. I try to stress the importance of conditioning for football and not track or cross country. Inevitably, you watch them practice after they ask for advice and help and there the kids are running a lap to start practice and running sprints at the end. Even worse, as pointed out above, cancelling specials or some other important thing to do sprints. I never understood the guys who want advice and help and all they really want is the magic offense and defense. Go ask somebody else. We just ran super simple stuff that everybody else runs. We just ran it better because we practiced better. Few people outside of this website get that.

Offline Seabass

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2018, 01:30:22 PM »
Coaches talk to me about how we did things. One of the first things I talk to them is about conditioning and the first part of that is always running laps. I try to stress the importance of conditioning for football and not track or cross country. Inevitably, you watch them practice after they ask for advice and help and there the kids are running a lap to start practice and running sprints at the end. Even worse, as pointed out above, cancelling specials or some other important thing to do sprints. I never understood the guys who want advice and help and all they really want is the magic offense and defense. Go ask somebody else. We just ran super simple stuff that everybody else runs. We just ran it better because we practiced better. Few people outside of this website get that.

My dad calls those people "ASKHOLE'S"..... the guy who always asks for advice but never takes it.

Offline Vince148

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2018, 02:16:48 PM »
I've already described our plyo routine. That's part of the conditioning and starts from Day 1.

Early in each season, we run every player through our route tree. 5 receiver positions, 2 player QBs and 3 coaches all throwing balls. They end up running intervals for 30 minutes, but are oblivious to the fact that they are running.

This is all to get the physically prepared for the grind of football.

However, an important component is the mental toughness aspect. That's where Jack's Enduro comes in. Mahonz has a similar drill that involves hill runs and is done roughly once a week early in the season. We didn't do it with our last group in the last 2 seasons, though.

It's all about overcoming the mental aspects of pain, fatigue and discomfort. My little twist to it is the "us against the world" aspect. I try to take the opportunity to teach the kids to band together to overcome a common enemy. In this case, the enemy happens to be Mahonz.  ;D Sort of a "Don't give the prick the satisfaction of seeing you quit. Make eye contact with a teammate and let him fill your emotional gas tank."
I might change my warmup to something similar.

Last year, I started warmup with a jog, then progressed to some bag drills. After that, some carioca, shuffles, bear crawls, and beckpedals. Maybe I'll change the movements with plyo stuff after the jogs and agility bags.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2018, 02:19:16 PM »
Few people outside of this website get that.

Or inside of it.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2018, 02:21:20 PM »
Or inside of it.

--Dave
Some people are just hard headed. They can't get past how they were coached. I often think you might of actually had an advantage early on because you didn't play hs ball. Sort of like the kid with 4 years of experience with a bad coach. I'd rather have a kid with no experience.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: What is your idea of conditioning?
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2018, 02:23:35 PM »
I often think you might of actually had an advantage early on because you didn't play hs ball.

Oh, I definitely had an advantage.

The times I've talked to coaches about the stoopid stuff they do that's traced back to the stoopid stuff their coaches did...

--Dave
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The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope