Author Topic: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules  (Read 5657 times)

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Offline CmartCoach

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2018, 01:36:46 PM »
As for GUMBYs approach with the MEGA splits....we have that installed (MAXI call) which calls for maximum splits of 4+ feet, and in that case MANGO makes a ton of sense.

This apprach makes sense to me if our back is better than their LBs...
Cmart

Offline Michael

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2018, 01:50:43 PM »
As for GUMBYs approach with the MEGA splits....we have that installed (MAXI call) which calls for maximum splits of 4+ feet, and in that case MANGO makes a ton of sense.

This apprach makes sense to me if our back is better than their LBs...

The wider the splits, the better your back gets and the worse the LBs get.
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Online Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2018, 01:55:30 PM »
Coach,

"As they progress you can teach the G to look back inside for a gapped defender if the DL is shaded outside of the OT.  But, I wouldnt add that to start, because they will over or under think it. If you want them to learn to climb to second level, you have to instill that is the uncovered guys job! "

I think that covers the rest of the front, I could be wrong.  However, in my head, there is a difference between using Combinations (Double Teams) and pressing the Front to the LB and Zone.  What you describe in my head sounds like AREA blocking.  However, if you truly aren't concerned about the Line Backers, then it makes no difference what you use to block the 3 ,4 or 5, guys on the front as long as they are blocked.  Which goes back to my suggestion to teach them to Block Big On Big First.  For me I would like to get a hat on a Play side LB whenever I can.  Play direction right, step right!  IZ is another animal.   8)


 
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline morris

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2018, 02:34:52 PM »
We teach from the get go you either have a play side defender or a back side defender.  Now we can double to backer or use an eyes in play side gap.  We don't do that or we wait until they are really comfortable.  Many times they will start to do it on their own.

We are 4 wide most of the time.  We teach there is pretty much only 3 fronts. Odd, Even or Bear fronts.  It works for us.  There are all kinds of different ways to run zone.  this just happens to be what we do.  It is similar to what some call Angle. 

Offline blockandtackle

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2018, 02:45:09 PM »
The wider the splits, the better your back gets and the worse the LBs get.

It's hard to fill a hole that's twice as wide as you are.

The flipside is that the DL get better.

From mega splits, it stops being zone, IMO, and becomes a straight up man scheme since there's no way you're going to combo from 4'+ and you don't really have to worry about stunts anymore.

Nothing wrong with that if your kids are schooled on technique well enough to win those matchups, but that is what it is.

Online Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2018, 02:55:08 PM »
We teach from the get go you either have a play side defender or a back side defender.  Now we can double to backer or use an eyes in play side gap.  We don't do that or we wait until they are really comfortable.  Many times they will start to do it on their own.

We are 4 wide most of the time.  We teach there is pretty much only 3 fronts. Odd, Even or Bear fronts.  It works for us.  There are all kinds of different ways to run zone.  this just happens to be what we do.  It is similar to what some call Angle.

Extrapolate on how they decide front side or backside all things being equal (Meaning) Head Up on Center and Tackle.  What does the Guard do?
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline CmartCoach

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2018, 02:55:51 PM »
Line of thinking for us goes like this....

Secure the front first. ZERO penetration from the DL.  IF LBs sit and "read" like typical youth LBs so when not blitzing (hop around and react to the play after thy diagnose who has the ball) then our RB has a full head of steam right at them. GET US 4 is easy.

If the LBs walk up for a presnap blitz, they become a counted LOS defender and are blocked right from the snap by whoever counted him.

If the LB's Blitz from depth or fill aggressively at the snap, thats where the "RB is responsible to make the LB wrong" comes in.

On inside zone, RB presses the playside A gap downhill at 1000 mph.  The best cut is no cut, but if the LB is "stepping up to fill" or blitzing the playside A gap, we bend it back to the backside A gap. That is the only option for them (unless we have a vision talented runner, then we will teach the backdoor cut) IZ is an A GAP run (either A gap) and it CANNOT be a negative yardage play, get downhill.

If there are too many LBs in the box for us to run IZ, then we are not doing a good enough job at forcing the D to defend the whole field. 

We can (and do) also tag our H-back to insert on LBs at times. 

Preaching that the OL secures the front, "fat guys first" and stay on those doubles AS LONG AS YOU CAN really helps us to develop an attitude, we don't want to come off the double until the LB is within arms length.
Cmart

Offline CmartCoach

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2018, 02:59:46 PM »
From mega splits, it stops being zone, IMO, and becomes a straight up man scheme since there's no way you're going to combo from 4'+ and you don't really have to worry about stunts anymore.

Nothing wrong with that if your kids are schooled on technique well enough to win those matchups, but that is what it is.

Agreed. It becomes a "my guy vs your guy" on the OL/DL matchups and if you have better Jimmies than their Joes the MEGA call makes a ton of sense.  But when they have the better DL, we like the DOUBLES.

Lets say their DT is a STUD 10/10 player, it will be easier for us to block him with a 6/10 T and a 7/10 G....I'll take 13 vs 10 over 6 vs 10...
Cmart

Offline CmartCoach

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2018, 03:00:38 PM »
Extrapolate on how they decide front side or backside all things being equal (Meaning) Head Up on Center and Tackle.  What does the Guard do?

Speaking only for us....Tie goes to the playside...

Been considering "smart splits" though which would make Playside DL the closer guy...

N.......DT
C....G..T
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 03:02:26 PM by CmartCoach »
Cmart

Offline CmartCoach

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2018, 03:07:48 PM »
Speaking of smartsplits, I've thought of two different ways to look at it....any feedback?

First way..... start at 12"-18"each player widens to 24"+ if he is uncovered, stays at 12"-18" if covered


Second way..... Start at 24" and only guards can move - in if covered, out if uncovered....Tackle is ALWAYS 6 feet from center.

I guess it probably ends up the same either way? How are you guys teaching smart splits?
Cmart

Online Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2018, 03:34:38 PM »
My splits are, at most, 2 feet.  We dont use Mega.

Hence the question of What does the guard do?
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Offline Michael

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2018, 03:40:37 PM »
We never doubled from the wide splits.

We felt like the wider we got, the more we liked the OL/DL match-ups.
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Offline Michael

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2018, 03:42:12 PM »
Lets say their DT is a STUD 10/10 player, it will be easier for us to block him with a 6/10 T and a 7/10 G....I'll take 13 vs 10 over 6 vs 10...

We played youth teams, not SEC teams.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2018, 04:05:03 PM »
The wider the splits, the better your back gets and the worse the LBs get.

Yes. That's what I'm trying to say. No one but you and Mahonz believes me, though.  I'm not certain my OC believes me.  :D

Early in the season, it's a wash at best. LBs have the edge until the backs learn to appreciate all that real estate.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Inside/Outside Zone Blocking rules
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2018, 04:17:58 PM »
The flipside is that the DL get better.
Disagree and here's why.  With a 5' split, you are forcing a D-lineman to play like a LB. If he was suited to that, he'd be a LB. If a back gets solo tackled by a 4 tech who is about 10 feet from the ball, that back will be moved to WR or defense.

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From mega splits, it stops being zone, IMO
No argument there.

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there's no way you're going to combo from 4'+
Gonna disagree there as well. The main reason I developed our blocking rules is that I was seeing double teams (good ones) on film and it was pissing me off. LBs were having a "highlight reel" game. With giant splits, a double team means you are wasting a perfectly good blocker. If one of my guys is really struggling with his man, we'll give him as little help as possible from an uncovered buddy. The buddy knows he still has to get to that LB.

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and you don't really have to worry about stunts anymore.
Stunts are the one thing that have given us trouble. I found the solution by having the o-line slow play the stunts. Then we played 6 games straight with no stunts and forgot all about that rule just in time for the championship where our opponent stunted like crazy. My center worked it out with his boys and we reeled off 30 unanswered points.

Also, I apologize for even bringing it up. This was an IZ/OZ rule blocking thread. I jumped in because our rules are basically IZ/OZ. We just don't stress the double teams. I figured our rules (which were designed to be ridiculously simple) would work for an IZ/OZ team. I'm still not ready to say that mega splits is better. It just has worked for us.
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