Author Topic: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!  (Read 14723 times)

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Offline mahonz

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2011, 01:36:51 PM »
Here is how we would teach the RG in this situation:

........3.....1.....1........
....4....2.....0.......2....3....
......y..t..g..C..G..T..Y........

RG identifies who he has in his count and realizes his man is off of the LOS.  He could get a stab from the DL so he is going to step to help/prevent that first.  He can do this because his man is removed from the LOS.  He has to understand the relationship between the length of time to help his OL next to him and the distance his man is off of the LOS.  Closer = less time; farther = more time. 

If everything stayed the same as the diagram, our RG would step as though there were a 3 tech on him (to prevent/take care of a stab by the DL).  The the time he his taking his second step, his eyes are on his man.  He his going to continue to help the OL next to him until the RG's man is about three of his (the RG's not the defender) steps away from the RG.  I say three steps because he needs two steps to ensure the correct contact and one step for the recognition/timing factor. 

If the LB walked up to the gap pre-snap, well then that would be the same thing as if he had a DL in his gap.  Due to the distance, he can not help any one. He has to go right now. 

What if it is a dog (delayed blitz)?  Again, it goes back to the time/space relationship.  Help for as long as he can, but go when he needs to go (within three steps).

In a way, it is no different than teaching a ball carrier to lower his shoulder prior to contact.  If there is room to run, a RB is not going to lower his shoulder far away from contact.  He is going to run unimpeded for as long as possible until he needs to deal with the contact.  Here, the RG is helping get movement as long as possible until he has to deal with his man.

DW

That makes a ton of sense.

Thanks !

Coach Mike
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Offline coachmsl

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2011, 07:18:18 PM »
I agree Mike.  That does make perfect sense.  Thanks morris.

My cousin is a GA at FCS school.  They fold the stud 3 like you said.  He is at Morehead State.  Is that near you?

Matt
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Offline defensewins

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2011, 08:34:33 PM »
No, I'm in CA

Offline coachmsl

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2011, 08:36:10 PM »
Defensewins.  Thanks.  For some reason i thought you were morris.  lol  I just read another thread and there was morris and you talking verts. 

Matt
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Offline coachmsl

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2011, 10:52:07 PM »
Against a 50 front ( stand up ends, 4 or 5 tech tackles, and a nose) does the rb's read change for IZ and OZ?

Thanks

Matt
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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2011, 10:59:11 PM »
Well done DW

Makes durn good sense to me
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Offline defensewins

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #66 on: February 22, 2011, 12:53:33 PM »
Against a 50 front ( stand up ends, 4 or 5 tech tackles, and a nose) does the rb's read change for IZ and OZ?

Just for full disclosure, this is what we do.  Other people do things differently.

On IZ, we train our RB's to read the DL closest to the Center.  In the basic fronts, he reads the "*" defender:

...........v....v....v.........................
........v....v....*....v...v....................
.........0.0.0.x.0.0.0.............................

.............v....v.........v.........................
........v.v....*...v...v....................
.........0.0.0.x.0.0.0.............................

...............v....v.........................
........v..v....*....v...v....................
.........0.0.0.x.0.0.0.............................

We feel that this simplifies the rules for the RB and we don't have to teach him fronts.  We don't see a heck of a lot of double 2 tech's or double 3 tech's without a nose.  IF we did (and we still rep this in practice), he would default to the playside man that is closest to the center. 

On OZ, we read the block of the PST.  If his butt is outside, the RB is outside.  If his butt is inside, the RB is inside.  That isn't the way that the godfather of zone blocking, Alex Gibbs, teaches it.  He teaches it (and I think Mahonz does this two) so that there is a two defender read (potentially).  He will read the second DL from the center.  If he is outside, then I look to the next interior DL.  If the first guy read is inside, then I stay outside.  We were searching for a way to make it more simplistic for our RB's and watched a ton of film.  Reading the block of the PST is what we ended up with.  If everything is closed, get back to the LOS (no negative plays) and live another day. 

So, that is the long of it.  The short of it is that we don't teach fronts and our reads are consistent and the same for every front that we face. 

Offline jem

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #67 on: February 22, 2011, 01:42:13 PM »
So, that is the long of it.  The short of it is that we don't teach fronts and our reads are consistent and the same for every front that we face.

Now I like that!

j
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #68 on: February 22, 2011, 07:41:11 PM »
So this thread got me thinking...why.

If you run off tackle the best you will win....so run OZ and be damn good at it.

If you cant run off tackle then you are getting schooled by a couple of DT's and a LB'r....it happens....so run trap.

If your linemen pucker up and cant trap those DT's....cant get on that backer that seems to be every where all at once....know there has to be a bubble somewhere in there....run wedge.

IZ....ok....why?

Kinda like the Veer folks...do you need OV, IV and midline?...or do you need OV, trap and wedge. I mean really...this isnt D1 College ball we are talking about here.

Just thinking out loud.....

Coach Mike
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bear42

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #69 on: February 22, 2011, 08:04:02 PM »
Mahonz,

I see what your saying, but if that LB'r is everywhere why not add some play action passing to slow that down. And a little misdirection wouldn't hurt. Agree-disagree

Offline seeindouble

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2011, 09:12:51 AM »
I mean really...this isnt D1 College ball we are talking about here.

Good point, which leads me to this question, are youth O-Lines generally better than youth D-Lines?

Offline Michael

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2011, 09:34:42 AM »
Not that I've seen.

An uncoached D-Line is better than an uncoached O-Line, I think, and we usually see both, at least with the little dudes.
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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2011, 09:48:20 AM »
My observation is that kids will find a way to get to the ball sans technique.  OL has to use technique so an untrained OL is at a disadvantage. 

What amazes me, however, is that training for both is so similar, yet I have to beg kids to play OL and they stack up like cord wood to play D.  Aggression is NOT limited to the DL.  Physicality is not exclusive to the DL.  Excellence is not limited to the DL.

Part of the obsticle is the lack of Glorification for the offensive line by all but, especially College and Pro networks.  Always get to see the DE or DT beating the OL to get to the QB.  Rarely do they proclaim the blocks on the replay's but the Back.  If more kids could see/hear an analyst proclaiming the OL things would start to filter down.  Right now all we can do is play them up.  Never forget it all starts on the LINE. ;)

JMHO
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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2011, 11:36:39 AM »
So this thread got me thinking...why.

If you run off tackle the best you will win....so run OZ and be damn good at it.

If you cant run off tackle then you are getting schooled by a couple of DT's and a LB'r....it happens....so run trap.

If your linemen pucker up and cant trap those DT's....cant get on that backer that seems to be every where all at once....know there has to be a bubble somewhere in there....run wedge.

IZ....ok....why?

Kinda like the Veer folks...do you need OV, IV and midline?...or do you need OV, trap and wedge. I mean really...this isnt D1 College ball we are talking about here.

Just thinking out loud.....

Coach Mike

Great question.  Don/t know for sure! lol 

Offline jem

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Re: Confused on Zone rules, HELP!
« Reply #74 on: February 24, 2011, 01:08:36 AM »

Kinda like the Veer folks...do you need OV, IV and midline?...or do you need OV, trap and wedge. I mean really...this isnt D1 College ball we are talking about here.


Coach Mike

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