Author Topic: Offensive Scheme Questions!!  (Read 162 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Defense1st

  • Copper
  • Posts: 3
  • Total likes: 0
  • Coaching: 8 & Under
  • Defense: 5-3
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Coordinator
Offensive Scheme Questions!!
« on: June 03, 2019, 01:41:31 AM »
What's up Coaches,

I've been out of the game for a couple of seasons and recently I was approached to HC a 7u team 90lb max.
Just wanted to bounce some ideas off some guys and get any feedback I can. I'm a going to run Power, Counter, Sweep, and Power Pass out of DSDW. I'm a Gregorie so the plan is one formation with multiple tags Ex. Nasty, Over, On, Loose, Split, Twins, Trips. We will run a No HUDDLE  tempo offense( Whatever the situation dictates tempo). The kids will have wristbands and we will be calling plays with color and # i.e. Green 345 the last number is the play. As Coaches, we can be on the field but not in the huddle 10yds from the LOS so it will be easy to get the kids to understand and execute the concept. Blocking rules for power/counter will be TKO, for sweep PSG and BSG pull and we are going to combo block the edge. for power pass first 2 steps run then set. Our QB, BB, and TE will be lineman big-bodied type with our oldest fastest athletes at WB I figure we will hit you in the mouth with power and counter and KO you with sweep and PA pass. GO where you aren't. But really we are going to run power out of what looks like 10 different formations over and over again at a pace you're not used to. Please  let me know what you guys think. 

 
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 01:43:41 AM by Defense1st »

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18326
  • Total likes: 4428
  • "Every coach sets their own standard."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Spread Formation
  • Title: Positions
Re: Offensive Scheme Questions!!
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2019, 02:48:00 AM »
I'm a going to run Power, Counter, Sweep, and Power Pass out of DSDW.

What's "DSDW?"

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18326
  • Total likes: 4428
  • "Every coach sets their own standard."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Spread Formation
  • Title: Positions
Re: Offensive Scheme Questions!!
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2019, 03:10:52 AM »
I'm a Gregorie so the plan is one formation with multiple tags Ex. Nasty, Over, On, Loose, Split, Twins, Trips.

--At 7 (Under?), I doubt the multiple formations will pay much in the way of dividends.  More formations means more time spent teaching formations.  At that age, fundamentals trump scheme in terms of on field success, as well as practice-time focus.  If you can block and tackle, it won't matter what you run; you'll be successful.  If you can't block and tackle, it won't matter what you run; you won't be successful.

We will run a No HUDDLE  tempo offense( Whatever the situation dictates tempo). The kids will have wristbands and we will be calling plays with color and # i.e. Green 345 the last number is the play.

--Nothing wrong with Tempo, but why do you think you'll need it?

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline spidermac

  • Silver
  • Posts: 2451
  • Total likes: 533
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: Killer Bee
  • Offense: Double Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Offensive Scheme Questions!!
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2019, 11:29:08 AM »
DSDW = Direct Snap Double Wing

How do you intend on aligning your backs? Shift? Nova? Comet? Star?

Cautionary Tale...I attempted to run DSDW when my last group of kids were 8...we ran it for one game...snaps killed us...for every positive play we had, we had two bad snaps...maybe an exaggeration...but it was pretty bad...we netted about 50 total yards of offense that game...the next game...we showed up to the field, and it was raining...and my Center could not grip the ball for the direct snap...so we spent the entire pregame teaching DW from under the Center...luckily, we had based the backs out of NOVA, so it was not that big of a deal...we used a hand off for power instead of toss...but it worked out okay...so okay, we decided to scrap DSDW and stay in DTDW for the rest of the season...and did not lose a game the rest of the way.

The other thing I would caution you about...depending upon which backfield alignment you choose, you are going to ask your Center to snap the ball to different backs...that is tough to do....let's say Nova...backfield is aligned pretty much the same as if you are under center, except the QB and BB are standing next to each other...and you call Red Rip Nova 16 Power Right...but the Center makes either a physical or a mental mistake and snaps it to the 3 back, who on the snap is crossing over and going to kick that DE...instead of that 3 yards a play you need (we are a 4 down offense), you are now looking at 2nd and 15 or worse....the bad guys have the ball...

My opinion, and this and 5 dollars and change will get you a warm beverage at Starbucks...

Go DTDW...under Center...

Power Series...love Power Series...you forgot Trap, ISO and Reverse...okay, just kidding...back to my experience, when that group of boys was 7...we started simple...Buck Wedge...split flow series...easy teach, one blocking scheme for the line...the backs pretty much did the same thing on every play, the only thing that changes was if the QB handed the ball to the BB, the Wing, or kept it himself...same backfield action every time, but different folks getting the ball...very deceptive and effective, and did I mention, easy teach? Now to run power...we opted to go direct snap...Beast (I think Jack calls it Comet in his book)...Red Beast Over Nasty 26 Power Right...and some days when my small handed Center was having trouble with the snap...we went under Center to run it :P simple...so now the oline has two blocking schemes...TKO and Wedge...and bonus points...if you want to, you can run Power Pass out of the Beast Alignment...and if you want to get fancy, but keep the teach simple...throw in some of the Fenton Wedge Stuff...also split flow...but now you are incorporating motion into the offense...

Wrist Coaches and Play Calling...we used wrist coaches at 7...and we could run no huddle at 7 as well...but I do not recommend the tempo approach this young, unless you have to do it...it stresses your own boys, probably more so than the defense...down by 6 with 4 minutes left...yes...tempo...up by 14 with 7 minutes left in the 2nd...not so much...go reverse tempo and eat the rest of those 7 minutes and go into half up 21-0...wrist coaches...like I said, we used them...be aware...one of your guards  (or a TE or someone) is going to be enthralled by the sound the Velcro makes as he opens and closes his wrist coach...in a no huddle, he may be opening and closing his wrist coach when the ball is snapped... :P I would recommend huddling...his team mates will make him stop playing with the wrist coach...your secret code...I like it...except the defensive players at 7 don't care what you shout to your players...they aren't listening...they are listening to their coach, or looking at the cloud that looks like a dinosaur, or watching that interesting Snickers wrapper blow across the field...you may fool the opposing coaches with the secret code...you may not...you will probably fool one of your own players a few times a game...probably the Guard who likes the sound of Velcro...we used a color and a number, the number was on the wrist coach, so was the color...and in certain situations, we actually yelled out the actual play call...RED BEAST OVER NASTY 26 POWER RIGHT...no one knows what the heck that means...except for the coach we are running it at...well, probably not all of it...26 Power Right...he knows we are running Power Right...so what...he isn't going to have time to set his defense to stop it, and if he decides to tackle your wing...well that would be a penalty :P

Perimeter tags...I like them...especially at 7 years old...I don't use them that young, but I love when other coaches try and displace my defenders with spread formations....the kid he has playing QB is 7...the kids he has spread out are 7...likely the QB can't get the ball out there without it skipping 7 or 8 times...and even if he can...the ball is going to hang in the air like a weather balloon...I do not honor spread sets at that age, unless I know that they can actually do stuff with them...so someone showing me trips means they have to block my 11 with 7...not going to happen...

My recommendation...go DTDW...use some Edge Tags...Over, Nasty, On...use Buck Wedge, use Fenton Wedge...use Beast to run Power and Power Pass, if you want, you can run Counter from Beast...as you are practicing over the course of the season...start working in Power Series from DTDW...maybe in the 6th week or so it will look like you want it to and can run plays from it in the game...we did get to that point with my 7 year old team...it was week 5 or 6 when we unveiled power series out of DTDW...I think we finally ran counter in week 8...

Love the enthusiasm for the offense...but be patient...give them a good foundation and build in a logical progression :)

None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.

Offline blockandtackle

  • Bronze
  • Posts: 804
  • Total likes: 492
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Other
  • Title: Assistant
Re: Offensive Scheme Questions!!
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2019, 11:54:11 AM »
What's up Coaches,

I've been out of the game for a couple of seasons and recently I was approached to HC a 7u team 90lb max.
Just wanted to bounce some ideas off some guys and get any feedback I can. I'm a going to run Power, Counter, Sweep, and Power Pass out of DSDW. I'm a Gregorie so the plan is one formation with multiple tags Ex. Nasty, Over, On, Loose, Split, Twins, Trips. We will run a No HUDDLE  tempo offense( Whatever the situation dictates tempo). The kids will have wristbands and we will be calling plays with color and # i.e. Green 345 the last number is the play. As Coaches, we can be on the field but not in the huddle 10yds from the LOS so it will be easy to get the kids to understand and execute the concept. Blocking rules for power/counter will be TKO, for sweep PSG and BSG pull and we are going to combo block the edge. for power pass first 2 steps run then set. Our QB, BB, and TE will be lineman big-bodied type with our oldest fastest athletes at WB I figure we will hit you in the mouth with power and counter and KO you with sweep and PA pass. GO where you aren't. But really we are going to run power out of what looks like 10 different formations over and over again at a pace you're not used to. Please  let me know what you guys think.

A few thoughts:

I suggest a second formation.  Trips is useful, especially in youth ball, because teams tend to line up to it so badly they either have no force player on the weak side (which lets sweeps and off tackle runs go for miles) and leave that receiver 1-on-1 or they get outnumbered to the Trips in a hurry.

TKO is harder to do from a double slot.  A track blocking scheme can work, but TKO works best with a 4 man surface to block down, IMO.

If BSG and PSG pull and you "combo block" the edge on sweep... what does everyone else do?  I'm afraid you might have issues with your blocking there.

You have a couple of off tackle plays, a sweep, and a PAP.  I suggest a bootleg off Counter and a Wedge or some other play between the tackles to keep the defense honest.

The bootleg can be great misdirection, especially with a drag running to it--the QB can usually just keep and run to open grass without having to throw.  Call it when the backside DE is chasing, and youth DEs always tend to do that.

Also, have 1 good sprint out pass (I suggest a Flood) for long yardage situations and 1 good screen (I like a throwback screen off a bootleg).  You may only pass like 3 times a game, but all those things are weapons.  If you're spread out with a Double Slot set, you're going to have to pass some to force defenses to respect the split WRs.

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18326
  • Total likes: 4428
  • "Every coach sets their own standard."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Spread Formation
  • Title: Positions
Re: Offensive Scheme Questions!!
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2019, 02:08:14 PM »
DSDW = Direct Snap Double Wing

Oh...

Well, you better be good at executing a shotgun snap, because most of the younger teams will consistently either snap the ball over the QB's head, or snap a rainbow which takes forever to get the ball to the QB because he's fielding the snap like a Centerfielder.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline Defense1st

  • Copper
  • Posts: 3
  • Total likes: 0
  • Coaching: 8 & Under
  • Defense: 5-3
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Coordinator
Re: Offensive Scheme Questions!!
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2019, 02:14:39 PM »
Thanks, Coach DP

1. Yes, 7 and under but I have 10 kids that turn 8 after July 31st so half 7/8yr olds no 6yr olds.

2. We as a staff believe in everything you just said. We teach our kids to  HIT(block and tackle) every day with an emphasis on technique and speed. That's why we wanted to keep the playbook small to focus on execution and the fundamentals. I'll cut down the tags.

3. I've always run a No Huddle Tempo Offense so I can maximize my reps in practice and condition at the same time( Read it in a book By John T. Reed years ago).  Most likely won't need it for the game but it works very well in practice.


Thanks for the response Coach I've been following you for years!!!! I show your 2009 War Eagle cut-ups to all my coaches and kids!!!

     

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18326
  • Total likes: 4428
  • "Every coach sets their own standard."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Spread Formation
  • Title: Positions
Re: Offensive Scheme Questions!!
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2019, 02:32:06 PM »
Thanks, Coach DP

--You're welcome.

1. Yes, 7 and under but I have 10 kids that turn 8 after July 31st so half 7/8yr olds no 6yr olds.

--When I coached 7-9s, we had approximately 10 formations.  (I doubt I needed that many, but that's what I did.)  We had 2 formations going into Game 1, and would add 1 formation per week, throughout the season.  Just installing 2 formations by Game 1 was simple enough (our Base Formation, and 1 simple adjustment like Unbalanced).  Each week, we'd add the new formation and rep the formations at the beginning of each practice, that week.  (Week 2, three formations; Week 3, four formations, etc. )  Mostly, we used the additional formations to steal practice prep time from our opponents, since we were always scouted.

Thanks for the response Coach I've been following you for years!!!! I show your 2009 War Eagle cut-ups to all my coaches and kids!!!

--Wow.  Now I feel really old.  ;)

--Dave


   
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline 32wedge

  • Copper
  • Posts: 415
  • Total likes: 180
  • Coaching: Middle School
  • Defense: Killer Bee
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Offensive Scheme Questions!!
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2019, 03:13:59 PM »
What's up Coaches,

I've been out of the game for a couple of seasons and recently I was approached to HC a 7u team 90lb max.
Just wanted to bounce some ideas off some guys and get any feedback I can. I'm a going to run Power, Counter, Sweep, and Power Pass out of DSDW. I'm a Gregorie so the plan is one formation with multiple tags Ex. Nasty, Over, On, Loose, Split, Twins, Trips. We will run a No HUDDLE  tempo offense( Whatever the situation dictates tempo). The kids will have wristbands and we will be calling plays with color and # i.e. Green 345 the last number is the play. As Coaches, we can be on the field but not in the huddle 10yds from the LOS so it will be easy to get the kids to understand and execute the concept. Blocking rules for power/counter will be TKO, for sweep PSG and BSG pull and we are going to combo block the edge. for power pass first 2 steps run then set. Our QB, BB, and TE will be lineman big-bodied type with our oldest fastest athletes at WB I figure we will hit you in the mouth with power and counter and KO you with sweep and PA pass. GO where you aren't. But really we are going to run power out of what looks like 10 different formations over and over again at a pace you're not used to. Please  let me know what you guys think.

I use a lot of DSDW (I call it Twins formation) and trips and run SW Power Series and 4 different half spin series from multiple formations. 

I love the style of offense you are describing.  We just call it down blocking on off tackle plays but teach it basically the same way JJ Lawson and Jack Gregory teach TKO.

I could bounce ideals back and forth all day but, in my opinion, you would be better off eliminating some of your ideals and simplifying your stuff for 7 year olds.  You are on the field so you could huddle up and show the whole offense drawings of the play from laminated sheets.  Color code the positions.  That worked great for me with 7/8 year olds.

Spend any saved time on defense. 

Just my two cents.   I wish you success.

Offline Defense1st

  • Copper
  • Posts: 3
  • Total likes: 0
  • Coaching: 8 & Under
  • Defense: 5-3
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Coordinator
Re: Offensive Scheme Questions!!
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2019, 03:33:54 PM »
Thanks, Spidermac and Blockandtackle

It was a shift formation in the backfield but I'm going to listen to you on this one. We'll change it to DTDW our main formation will be bear and bull I like how power hits with WB in the "I" and  It's easier to teach the QB the toss and spin to get into the hole. Plus counter hits hard. I'll put in the wedge( AWESOME suggestion)as well I completely forgot about the buck series. I don't remember the Fenton series but I'll do some research. Beast is a must do as well since we are going under center. Split-Flow? I will concentrate on NASTY,  ON, OVER, LOOSE. I've always run a No Huddle Tempo Offense in practice to maximize reps and to condition. I don't think I'll need it in the game but I will in practice. Sweep blocking we will seal with WB, PST&PSTE block down PSG pull to look for FBI and C block down ( NO NG league rules). BSG pull leakage to First man inside BST&BSTE scoop to center, FB outside in and QB lead up. I will put a sprint out flood in. GREAT suggestion!!!!   Thanks For everything Coaches!!!!!