Author Topic: JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3  (Read 373 times)

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Offline psully

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JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3
« on: July 25, 2019, 02:52:29 PM »
From what I have read on both defenses, they seem very similar. You can make similar adjustments with both defenses. What are the differences between both besides the even/odd fronts?

Also, Going to see a lot of single wing, wishbone, beast formations this season. Is one defense better suited to stop these offenses  than the other?

Online ZACH

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Re: JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2019, 06:38:45 PM »
I liked jacks 63 when i used it, i personally found it easily adaptable to offenses week to week. We ran a lot of "red". Vs basic full house offenses you said youll face that would be my choice bs you have 9 in the box and wide ends for the ever famous off tackle or wider plays prominent in youth.

Talk to coach shad or jack himself if hes around
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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2019, 08:45:04 PM »
I don't know JJ's defense.  I have used Jacks 6-3 for going on a decade. 

6-3 is a Chameleon.  It can look the same with entirely different intentions.   8) 
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Offline C-Rob

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Re: JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2019, 11:06:29 AM »
Can't speak for JJ's 33 Stack, but I'm sure it is a fine Defense.  I'm very pro 6-3.  I always felt like we had an answer to every problem. 
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Offline spidermac

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Re: JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2019, 11:53:37 AM »
I have run both...I like them both

JJ's - Very aggressive...all the time...if a mistake is made it is apparent very quickly....tremendous amount of pressure is brought to bare on the offense...love the 0 tech position, especially if playing against a timid Center, when we ran it, the first play of every game on Defense was MONSTER (where we attack the Center), just to see what he would do, and to let him know he was in for a long day :) this defense is good if you have a lot of players you need to protect...works well with younger kids...fosters aggressive play...

Jack's - Also aggressive...but can be played more traditionally (Red Mode)...the stunting out of this one I feel is more deceptive than the 33. This one plays more like a 43 which is a big boy defense, similar concepts in this defense and the KB. Works well with older boys...in game adjustments are simpler and less obvious to the offense...

With 10's, I would probably go with Jack's defense....get the base, then Red, then start working in the blitzes...
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Offline dollar

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Re: JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2019, 02:36:38 PM »
I have run Gregory's 6-3 from 10U up to 7th Grade.

It is a defense that moves up through the ages well.

Finding a great Mike and a two Great DE's make it an awesome D.

Also great Material to get to each of your Coaches every year to read and study.

Thank you Jack Gregory for that!

Offline Wing-n-It

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Re: JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2019, 03:40:19 PM »
From what I have read on both defenses, they seem very similar. You can make similar adjustments with both defenses. What are the differences between both besides the even/odd fronts?

Also, Going to see a lot of single wing, wishbone, beast formations this season. Is one defense better suited to stop these offenses  than the other?

My experiences are just like Spidermacs
I have run both with good success with the 3-3 but great success with the 6-3.

In my experience with he 3-3 I found too much penetration and 6 in the backfield too far and out of position. It most likely was my inexperience at the time but Jack settled me down a bit and showed me the light when it comes to defense.

If you do use Jacks I have had GREAT success teaching the "OLBs" to read even though they were MPPs I was a "Read" defense 95% of the time. They picked it up very fast and it paid dividends. I showed the 7 players, not 5 who and how to read early and often and no matter what the offense was aligned in they knew who they had and what their assignment was.

If you decide to go to Jacks I would be more than glad to help
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Offline sabot6d

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Re: JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2019, 06:47:52 AM »
I have run both. Legitimately i ran gregorys when i first started coaching and probably screwed up more than i got right. I did not have much success with it.

Ive run JJs 3-3 and Juniors 4-4 since depending on personnel. Ive had great success with both from youth all the way up to Varsity (yes we had to make a couple of adjustments at that level but not much)

Offline jrk5150

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Re: JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2019, 06:20:25 PM »
I have studied Jack's 6-3, have all his material, never ran it.

I've been a JJ 33 guy since 2009, ran it for 9 seasons ages 9-12 (D and C in Pop Warner).  JJ's run it with MS kids, I have not.  So take my experience for what it's worth.

My commentary in one sentence - I'm not a defensive guy, and I was able to run JJ's D successfully with just 2 coaches (myself and one other). 

But since I can't ever be that concise/brief -

My opinion is that JJ's is much simpler to run, by design.  There are just a few calls - as in 3 or 4 - that you need to be able to run the D effectively.  Jack's is more versatile, by design.  JJ created his to be a simple attacking defense.  Jack created his with much more than that in mind.

The two CAN play the same way - if you put the 33 in a 4-2 RED call, it's essentially Jack's base as far as alignment and most position responsibilities.  JJ may have his dogs out a bit wider/deeper than Jack's DE's, but they pretty much play the same way.

The single biggest technique difference between the two is the CB play - and it's a critical difference.  Jack's CB's take 3 read steps back at the snap and then execute their assignment.  JJ's are moving forward at the snap and reading on the run relying on their starting depth to be able to react/cover the pass. Same general assignment, but where they are and where their momentum is at the snap is hugely different.

And here's why that's important - if you're running taps as your base with your outside stackers/OLB's (as JJ's does), you will get KILLED off tackle if your CB's aren't coming up hard.  If you look at it, it's simply impossible for Jack's CB's in their alignment and technique to be at the LOS on off tackle runs.  And when you're in taps full time, you need that CB to be there.

Now, that's not a slam on Jack's D.  His works just fine because his OLB's are actual LB's, and they aren't in taps by base rule, so they are there for off-tackle most of the time.  JJ's outside stacks are NOT necessarily LB's, they're cannon fodder to create pressure.  If you have enough good players to where you can put true LB types there, then you're in really really good shape.

And again - all of these are based on my experience and observation.  Jack and JJ may differ some on their interpretation of how their scheme's work (okay, JJ not so much, he and I have enough hours on the phone behind us), and that's fine.  Believe them, they're much better at this than I am.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 06:28:21 PM by jrk5150 »

Offline DumCoach

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Re: JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2019, 02:20:50 AM »
I'll try and get in the last word.  First, both are very good defenses and which is why both get site availability here.  JJ's defense came before Jack's 6-3.  Jack knew the 3-3 and designed his "D" to be better than JJ's the same as I knew Jack's "D" when I designed my Killer Bee.  As a result, Jack's "D" had more calls to meet more situations.  However, JJ's "D" will be around a long time to come.  It fills all gaps at the snap and "taps" is simply too difficult for any offensive line to learn how to block in one week.  You'd have better luck as an offensive lineman blocking "taps" with your eyes closed than eyes open (Otherwise you'll try and follow "Man over").  I have often used JJ's 3-3 for my line to practice blocking on (If you can block it, you can block anything.).  It still takes two weeks to pick it up (not one). 

I found Jack's 6-3 to be a real eye opener in what he accomplished with so very little talent.  Given two weeks I could pick up JJ's scheme but it would have been more like two years to pick up Jack's.  It was seeing what Jack did that inspired my Killer Bee.   

That said, both D's share the same weakness.  They both use an inverted Cover 3 reaper.  Simply block the reaper and run off tackle with the QB (feel free to put your best RB at QB as a six man front cannot account for the QB) or throw a screen with linemen downfield blocking the reaper or put four receivers downfield, taking the corners outside while putting two receivers inside, and throw inside.  The reaper can't cover both inside receivers (This is how Spread works against Cover 3.).  My DCWT manual shows exactly how to beat a reaper.   It was because of this weakness and the popularity of Spread (four receivers downfield) that I invented my Killer Bee.  I never let another coach do to me what I do to him.

I'm sure Jack and JJ have addressed these weaknesses but those running their systems probably have not.  Until they meet someone like me they have no reason to. 

"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."

Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2019, 12:49:15 PM »
I had a similar experience to several folks here.  I have not run JJ's 33, but have run Jack's 6-3 with success.  It worked very well for us from 5th-8th grade.

The thing that I liked about it was that it allowed us to play in a base defense that we could then throw adjustments at over time.  Easy to learn and expand.  By the 3rd year running it, we could adjust to anything that an offense would throw at us with a quick adjustment that the kids could react to very quickly.

Like with offensive systems, I would caution you that it is not what you run, it is how you run it.  I had a group of guys last year who I showed the basics to and spoon fed them what they needed to work on.  Instead, they just blitzed all the time and couldn't figure out why they were giving up big plays.  If you aren't sound in your gap coverage and can't tackle, it won't make a difference what you choose. 

Offline JustPlay

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Re: JJ’s 33 Stack vs. Gregory’s 6-3
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2019, 11:02:12 PM »
To run Jacks 6-3 I think it requires two studs at DE  - If you do not have this talent - stick with the 33 as it will allow you UN-noticeable adjustments where you can sneak a player in with a few needed areas of improvement.

In Jacks 6-3 - The second you change out a DE - You are going to get attacked.
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