Author Topic: No matter how many bricks we make, the building keeps falling apart ...  (Read 153 times)

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Offline Catholic Okie

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Friends, 
   I am mostly a lurker and don't really even like to log-in. I love all the advice and wisdom posted. Here is an issue I would like some feedback on..
Our private high school just completed another disappointing season. This team has two classes of kids that I  helped coach from the 5-8 grade in the junior feeder program, which I still help with and have another son in the system .
Long story short, the culture of this program stinks. The kids have lost all respect for the coaching staff and many of kids have either formally quit and or just go through the motions.
The overall record of the current coaching staff looks somewhat respectable, but anybody who knows anything about football, knows how under achieving this entire football program has become.
   Parents of these kids are contacting me asking why our varsity teams look so bad and why after these kids  who never had a loosing season at the youth level, now look out matched.
  I am personal friends with  and have to interact with the varsity coaches and school admins   and have had some cordial discussions about some of the problems, but I am now convinced there has to be a complete coaching change-  parents want a meeting  with and AD and admin. I think that would be a debacle of passions and anger .
   Have any of you ever dealt with a similar issue and how did you handle it ?
thanks



Online CoachDP

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Re: No matter how many bricks we make, the building keeps falling apart ...
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2019, 12:09:03 PM »
Long story short, the culture of this program stinks. The kids have lost all respect for the coaching staff and many of kids have either formally quit and or just go through the motions.

--That's most programs.

The overall record of the current coaching staff looks somewhat respectable, but anybody who knows anything about football

--That's Problem 1 right there.  Most really don't know enough, whether they are on the inside or out.  So to say, "anybody who knows anything about football," is really talking about a very small minority.  Fans and parents may be complaining about the "results" (and they are certainly entitled to.  But that doesn't mean they "know anything about football."  It doesn't mean the coaches know anything, either. ;))  And it may be such a small minority that there's few in your area who can do anything about it. 

Parents of these kids are contacting me asking why our varsity teams look so bad and why after these kids who never had a loosing season at the youth level, now look out matched.

--And what's your reply?

I am personal friends with  and have to interact with the varsity coaches and school admins   and have had some cordial discussions about some of the problems, but I am now convinced there has to be a complete coaching change-  parents want a meeting  with and AD and admin. I think that would be a debacle of passions and anger.

--It's either the principal's call, and/or the AD's.  They'll make the decisions whether they're qualified to make an accurate assessment, or not.

Have any of you ever dealt with a similar issue and how did you handle it ?

--Yes, several times though youth, middle and high school ball.  How did I handle it?  Grabbed a box of popcorn and took a seat.  Really very little you can do, unless the admins are willing to answer those who are knocking at the door.  You can knock, but they don't have to answer.

--Dave

« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 12:29:27 PM by CoachDP »
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline spidermac

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Re: No matter how many bricks we make, the building keeps falling apart ...
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2019, 12:27:32 PM »
Similar but not the same...

And the simple answer is....sometimes you are just overmatched...my son opened a high school, they started with no seniors...their first two seasons, they got their teeth kicked in often...some of the parents bound together to "help" the program...and they tried to enlist me to "help" the program...I was there because my son was considered a "player"....and he was...but regardless...some of the well meaning dad's would (with the head coach's blessing) have extra training for the boys...they asked if I would help with the bigs...which prompted me to speak with the header...and ask him if he really wanted us to do this...he talked around the question, which gave me my answer :) at which point I let the other dad's know, that my schedule wouldn't allow it...by the 3rd season...the team was winning and making the playoffs...and suddenly...coach was a genius :P

And "helping" the program wasn't the only thing the parents did...on Friday nights...after a thrashing at the hands of a superior opponent, parents of boys whom I had previously coached would say things like "You should be coaching this team, you would get more out of them"...and I would remind them...we have no seniors, or we have 10 seniors and 6 of them don't play...and coach has them leaving it all out on the field...be patient it will come together...or we have 15 sophomores starting...

Here's the thing...the people in the room are the only ones who know what is going on in the room...yes, the boys can tell them what is going on from their perspective...but that absolutely must be taken with a grain of salt...

Okay, I am going to say "here's the thing"...again

Here's the thing...there are so many other ways to measure success than the score board...at any level...are the boys progressing and getting better? Are they becoming a family? Are the succeeding in the class room, etc, etc, etc...if the only value of the program is the scoreboard...then you are selling your boys short...and boys who 'quit" or "go through the motions" probably didn't belong there in the first place...

My .02...
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 12:29:40 PM by spidermac »
None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: No matter how many bricks we make, the building keeps falling apart ...
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2019, 12:41:25 PM »
Public and Parochial Schools can most assuredly become "complacent" with regards to Coaching Staffs and add on hires.  As with any other situation, the amount of Public Knowledge can discourage complacency and/ or, encourage action(s).

Observations are not necessarily facts.  Said "Observations" can be made Subjectively or Objectively, who determines who is right?  Who determines what is success and failure.  As a Coach you always have a few detractors or folks who just don't care for how you do things.  Unless were talking NCAA or NFL Wins and Losses are not always The Full Measure of success.   Undefeated in JFL does not necessarily translate to similar results in High School.  When you get to the High School level that layer of creme that rises to the top is much thinner and so on up the ladder.   
Whats my point?

Unless you have concrete, manifested, evidence that the kids are quitting and have no respect for the Coaches, you are just at Sour Grapes.  Unless an overwhelming majority of parents and kids are willing to sign petitions that back up the aforementioned perceived lack of confidence in a Coach or Coaching Staff, you have nothing to stand on.  It's a slippery slope you're walking on.  Make certain the path is correct and absolutely necessary.  The Physics adage "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" definitely applies.   




Just my opinion.   Good Luck

Dusty
     
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Online CoachDP

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Re: No matter how many bricks we make, the building keeps falling apart ...
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2019, 01:19:23 PM »
Public and Parochial Schools can most assuredly become "complacent" with regards to Coaching Staffs and add on hires.

--Exactly.  Admins are not only taking into account "coaching success," but what this coach/teacher does within the building.  Is he also the AD?  If he quits/gets fired, who will mow the fields, paint the lines, pay the refs, make the schedules, etc.  If they're in the classroom, how do they perform?  Chances are, if they're not a disaster inside, they can keep their job outside. Then there are the legalities; if he's fired from his position, does the school have to show cause?

Observations are not necessarily facts.  Said "Observations" can be made Subjectively or Objectively, who determines who is right?  Who determines what is success and failure.

--^ This.

As a Coach you always have a few detractors or folks who just don't care for how you do things.

--Hello.

Undefeated in JFL does not necessarily translate to similar results in High School.

--They are entirely different.  Players and parents may not think so, but youth and high school football is like comparing wine to motorcycles.  They're both great, but expertise in one has nothing to do with the other.

Unless you have concrete, manifested, evidence that the kids are quitting and have no respect for the Coaches, you are just at Sour Grapes.  Unless an overwhelming majority of parents and kids are willing to sign petitions that back up the aforementioned perceived lack of confidence in a Coach or Coaching Staff, you have nothing to stand on.  It's a slippery slope you're walking on. 

--100% agree.  And be careful what you wish for.  You might get your guy fired, but then end up with This Guy:  https://abc11.com/society/im-not-racist-instagram-video-shows-wake-co-coach-using-n-word/5674327/

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline Catholic Okie

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Thanks for the replies.
As a private school,  I  think expectations are always high, and they should be, our fellow parochial schools are out preforming us year after year .

But, one big criticism I have about the parochial schools is just how insular the admins can become. That is the bridge I want to cross.
I do not think the current  culture failed over night  and I know of no other way to correct a culture problem than to burn it all down and start over .

If the admins know that these kids have given up on this coach and listen to us and decide not to make a change so be it, but I think they owe it to all the kids and parents past, present,  and future, to make an effort and get player and parent feed back EVERY season.  Sure you cannot please every kid/family, but  you can identify trends and issues long before they get out of hand.

thanks again

Online CoachDP

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As a private school,  I  think expectations are always high, and they should be, our fellow parochial schools are out preforming us year after year.

--Everyone and every place should have high expectations, parochial school, or not.

But, one big criticism I have about the parochial schools is just how insular the admins can become.

--That's everywhere.

That is the bridge I want to cross.

--Well good luck with that...

I do not think the current  culture failed over night  and I know of no other way to correct a culture problem than to burn it all down and start over.

--Rabble rouser. ;)

If the admins know that these kids have given up on this coach and listen to us and decide not to make a change so be it, but I think they owe it to all the kids and parents past, present,  and future, to make an effort and get player and parent feed back EVERY season.

--Absolutely and of course.  But MOST people in this world do NOT want feedback, unless it's of the positive kind and feeds their ego.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline Bob Goodman

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Long story short, the culture of this program stinks.
That's too short.