Author Topic: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone  (Read 140 times)

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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« on: December 02, 2019, 11:30:02 AM »
Folks:



(DOESN'T HAVE TO BE TRIPLE OPTION)


Just out of curiosity how many of you run the above and DO NOT have a least one Option Play installed and ready for use?

Here's why I ask.  Our State Playoffs just completed this past Saturday.  I saw more Spread Teams running Option than anyone using the aforementioned Offenses.  Very Curious. 

Not one play with Point or Ride. Not one Regularly used Read/Pitch of the DE or OSLB.  To my Old Fart way of thinking you're leaving a highly effective play off the Table. 

If they can do it from the Spread why doesn't it still work from UC?   Did we forget how to teach it?


 :(   
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Offline ZACH

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Re: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2019, 11:37:53 AM »
Folks:



(DOESN'T HAVE TO BE TRIPLE OPTION)


Just out of curiosity how many of you run the above and DO NOT have a least one Option Play installed and ready for use?

Here's why I ask.  Our State Playoffs just completed this past Saturday.  I saw more Spread Teams running Option than anyone using the aforementioned Offenses.  Very Curious. 

Not one play with Point or Ride. Not one Regularly used Read/Pitch of the DE or OSLB.  To my Old Fart way of thinking you're leaving a highly effective play off the Table. 

If they can do it from the Spread why doesn't it still work from UC?   Did we forget how to teach it?


 :(

Its not seen on tv and its "easier" to make the read as a qb in gun according to the enthusiasts.

The high school im most involved with has been del wing t since 83? He doesn't run 40 series bc it wasnt a "thing" when he learned it.  Option doesnt interest him, cant complain my mans won a lot of district titles and a few state titles
"Some athletes have division 1 dreams and jv work ethic" - random

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2019, 12:32:40 PM »
Its not seen on tv and its "easier" to make the read as a qb in gun according to the enthusiasts.

The high school im most involved with has been del wing t since 83? He doesn't run 40 series bc it wasnt a "thing" when he learned it.  Option doesnt interest him, cant complain my mans won a lot of district titles and a few state titles

36 years is a long time not to be "a Thing" or even think about Option.  Tubby would not be pleased!  LOL

Heck I ran the I Formation and I had an Option Play and yes we worked it. 
 
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Offline ZACH

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Re: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2019, 01:36:26 PM »
36 years is a long time not to be "a Thing" or even think about Option.  Tubby would not be pleased!  LOL

Heck I ran the I Formation and I had an Option Play and yes we worked it.

Hard to argue with a guy old enough to be your grandfather that has only not been in state playoffs less than 5 seasons in almost 40 years of coaching lol
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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2019, 01:55:15 PM »
Not arguing so to speak just wondering what is happening with Offenses like these that were built, in large part, to run the Option. 

 



   
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2019, 01:59:07 PM »
Just out of curiosity how many of you run the above and DO NOT have a least one Option Play installed and ready for use?
I've been with a wing T team starting at 9U and this past season were 11Us, and never had an option run installed.  The only option play we had was waggle, which could be called as a run/pass option.

Now that I think about it, the only team I've coached on that had an option run was the really bad I formation team I coached on my first season, 2007.  Closest to that was a good team I coached on that had a look-like-triple-option series from the I formation that was really 3 separately called plays (but we wanted our opponents to think our QB was reading).  Next closest (same head coach) was a shotgun "quarterback choice" play that was a pre-snap read, run/pass.

I'm hoping we do install some hand-or-keep and pitch-or-keep next year as 12Us in the wing T.  If I took charge of the offense instead of Coach Lance I'd like to try my midline read idea that I've broached here, where the QB & FB take opposite A gaps against a 3-0-3 look, which we commonly both see and play.
Quote
Not arguing so to speak just wondering what is happening with Offenses like these that were built, in large part, to run the Option.
Wishbone was built to run triple option.  As far as I'm concerned, if it's not option it's not wishbone, because that's what the name was coined for.  You can be in the Y formation with no option, for instance power Y, but then don't call it wishbone.

If by "double wing" you mean Markham style (what a lot of coaches here assume is meant even though there are a lot of systems that have been run from double wing formations, viz. Gumby in Colorado), then it definitely was not built for option anything.  Some option plays can be squeezed into it uncomfortably.

Wing T also was not built in large part to run option.  Option plays have been added to it very successfully, and it's very comfortable with them, but wing T can be very successful without even a hint of option.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 02:08:44 PM by Bob Goodman »

Offline Beansko82

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Re: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2019, 02:59:35 PM »
I agree with Zach.  A lot of it has to do with the fact that it is fashionable.

And to be honest most Spread to run teams that I see, either on TV or otherwise, use option concepts a lot.  I’m not saying there’s spread teams that can’t run the ball without it, but it certainly seems like it’s a minority.

As for the Wing-T, it’s a very mallible offense.  One team back in my home town has a coach that is the all time wins leader in our county.  He’s famous for running Wing-T and has emphasized everything from the basic Buck and Belly/Down series to ISV/OSV, speed sweeps, double dive, and even 3 and 5 step passing game depending on what he had talent wise.

IMHO I agree that while it is a powerful part of those offenses you mentioned, they can be very successful without it.  A well coached Wing-T is a thing of beauty, ditto a well run Double Wing.  A non option Wishbone can also be a bear to defend (Hello Barta!). So it might not be worth it to a lot of coaches to install it if they’re already getting the job done. 


Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2019, 03:43:19 PM »
I've always considered the option play like dropping "Thor's Hammer" on a Defense.   That is unless you get real greedy running it.

Can be Hugely Demoralizing.  Dastardly, even.

 
 ;)

 
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Offline C-Rob

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Re: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2019, 04:27:59 PM »
Played around with running option out of the Single Wing as part of the Spinner Series.  This is something Coach Cisar came up working with Rick Darlington I believe where the #2 back flips to the #1 back.  Never ran it in a game but used it to keep the #1 carrying out the correct path when faking. 
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Offline bignose

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Re: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2019, 07:11:05 PM »

If by "double wing" you mean Markham style (what a lot of coaches here assume is meant even though there are a lot of systems that have been run from double wing formations, viz. Gumby in Colorado), then it definitely was not built for option anything.  Some option plays can be squeezed into it uncomfortably.



I hate to bust your bubble, Coach, but we ran the Outside Veer successfully from the Markham / Calande style DW back in 2007-2008. We ran it well, my little 5'-6"  QB (who ran a 4.5 forty and was a little ball hog) ran for over 900 yards on this play. He ran for 200 yards in one half against a defense over shifted to stop our Rocket Sweep play. It was a double option with no pitch, the motion wing got out in front and blocked the corner.

We used footwork from the Wishbone's Inside Veer, and read the last man on the LOS.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 07:17:17 PM by bignose »
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Offline Beansko82

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Re: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2019, 07:59:57 PM »
I hate to bust your bubble, Coach, but we ran the Outside Veer successfully from the Markham / Calande style DW back in 2007-2008. We ran it well, my little 5'-6"  QB (who ran a 4.5 forty and was a little ball hog) ran for over 900 yards on this play. He ran for 200 yards in one half against a defense over shifted to stop our Rocket Sweep play. It was a double option with no pitch, the motion wing got out in front and blocked the corner.

We used footwork from the Wishbone's Inside Veer, and read the last man on the LOS.

When you ran the OSV out of the Double Wing, did you widen the splits or stay foot to foot?

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2019, 08:31:06 PM »
I hate to bust your bubble, Coach, but we ran the Outside Veer successfully from the Markham / Calande style DW back in 2007-2008. We ran it well, my little 5'-6"  QB (who ran a 4.5 forty and was a little ball hog) ran for over 900 yards on this play. He ran for 200 yards in one half against a defense over shifted to stop our Rocket Sweep play. It was a double option with no pitch, the motion wing got out in front and blocked the corner.

We used footwork from the Wishbone's Inside Veer, and read the last man on the LOS.
I know, because you've written about that before, so you were the one I had in mind.  I also heard of a double wing wedge option where you don't read a particular defender but feel how the wedge is moving to decide whether to pull the ball out.

Offline bignose

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Re: Where's the Option?? Double Wing, Winged T, and Wishbone
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2019, 09:04:47 PM »
When you ran the OSV out of the Double Wing, did you widen the splits or stay foot to foot?

We retained our normal 6" splits.
The FB was backed up to 3 1/2 yards instead of sniffing.
Our blocking was exactly the same as on a normal Power Toss play, except we didn't pull anyone from the backside, they sealed, and instead of kicking out the DE, we read him.

With these splits our footwork and mechanics was taken directly from the Wishbone's Inside Veer, but because we were so tight, the FB's aiming point was the OT's outside hip.The play geometry worked out fine.
QB would step back, reach and ride the FB to his front hip (balance up) and would give or keep versus the EMOLS's reaction.

Several times in the game where he ran for all of the yardage, the FB went thru untouched, but the QB was so darn fast that the defender couldn't react to him on the keep.
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