Author Topic: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)  (Read 8204 times)

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CoachKell

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2011, 05:38:03 PM »
I'm going to play the role of village idiot for a moment.  I've heard the "Pin and Pull" term before with regard to a zone blocking concept, but how does it work exactly?  I have a picture in my head of what it seems like it should mean, but I'm struggling to marry that with the zone principles...

Let's use an example...

.......................W......M......S
........................E......N......E
........................T..G..C..G..T

To me, zone right (inside or outside) would have PST & PSG combo PSDE and Sam.  C & BSG work Nose to Mike and BST sifts to Will.  How would the Pin and Pull technique work in this scenario?  It must have something to do with uncovered lineman...when the puller gets out there, is he looking for first color and it becomes a drive block in space?

In my head I hear Pin and Pull and I think trap (down, down, kick).  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks guys.

CB

It's just another way to run OZ take a look

http://smartfootball.com/run-game/outside-zone-variant-the-pin-and-pull

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2011, 07:13:08 PM »
Use the diagram above the clip as the example of pin and pull.  The clip itself does not show what the diagram does as the Center and TE dont follow the example. 
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

CoachKell

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2011, 10:24:17 PM »
that's because they follow covered/Uncovered rules as pullers, depending on what they are seeing, the pulling linemen may change

Offline coachbradley

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2011, 10:30:13 PM »
I should have known...when in doubt, see Chris Brown!

So what I'm getting is that on pin and pull OZ, instead of using the double teams to get horizontal stretching, the uncovered lineman will pull to the playside and block first color.  Anybody to the backside of the pullers will scoop and anybody frontside from the pullers blocks stretch.  That is an overly simplistic way to look at it, no?

Offline CoachMattColorado

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2011, 10:32:20 PM »
One more dumb question. If you run Outside Zone Blocking do you have to run an Inside Zone Blocking for your Dive or Trap plays? Hope that makes sense

CoachKell

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2011, 10:41:57 PM »
I should have known...when in doubt, see Chris Brown!

So what I'm getting is that on pin and pull OZ, instead of using the double teams to get horizontal stretching, the uncovered lineman will pull to the playside and block first color.  Anybody to the backside of the pullers will scoop and anybody frontside from the pullers blocks stretch.  That is an overly simplistic way to look at it, no?

Nothing's ever overly simplistic, and yes that's a very good way to put it , if you can get your hands on Milt Tenopir's "assembly line", he goes over it in great detail

CoachKell

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2011, 10:44:30 PM »
One more dumb question. If you run Outside Zone Blocking do you have to run an Inside Zone Blocking for your Dive or Trap plays? Hope that makes sense

Well, no because you wont be running zone if you are running Trap, I can't see why it can;t be done that way, but Zone takes alot of time so for us it was just easiest to stay with IZ /OZ and Power. 

It's also easier for the players to pick up

Offline coachbradley

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2011, 10:47:21 PM »
Nothing's ever overly simplistic, and yes that's a very good way to put it , if you can get your hands on Milt Tenopir's "assembly line", he goes over it in great detail

I'll have to see if I can hunt that down.  Thanks coach!

Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2011, 11:19:57 PM »
One more dumb question. If you run Outside Zone Blocking do you have to run an Inside Zone Blocking for your Dive or Trap plays? Hope that makes sense

Matt

We have had success with this age group running multiple schemes but we take it in stages.

OZ is your off tackle stretch play and your bread and butter. If you can master this by game two you will win a bunch of games so its #1 on the list. As discussed, slide protection is a good marriage is you slide step your uncovered linemen. So play action will help bail you out game one if things are tough. Work these two schemes to death during the pre season.

Wedge is how we attack the A gaps. Wedge is a rather simple teach. We have the line collapse their splits down 100% for wedge. So if they are normally split 18 inches they are now at 9 inches. We run QB wedge and if you are in the I formation, FB wedge with the FB in a sniffer alignment. This is also ready for game one.

So wedge and play action can easily bail you out game one while your linemen get comfortable with OZ.

Then we add in speed blocking for the perimeter. This is another easy teach but never ready for game one. Always game two.

Then we add in a counter and two traps that hit the B gaps, both as separate schemes and only after the kids are getting comfortable.

So by the time mid season hits and you are geared up for the playoff run you have multiple schemes that hit all gaps both left and right. This will not overload their brains.

Coach Mike
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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2011, 11:39:55 PM »
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

CoachKell

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2011, 06:18:27 AM »
I'll have to see if I can hunt that down.  Thanks coach!

Very welcome coach, it's a rare book so I suggest trying to get it through Intra library loan, that's how I got it, then maybe a few hours with a scanner if you know what I mean

Offline CoachMattColorado

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2011, 10:12:06 AM »
Mike - Thanks for the info. If we had Outside Zone, Trap, Wedge -(We ran Wedge last season so the kids know it)-  Play Pass and some type of mis-direction(Reverse, Counter, etc) in place for game one you think we could be successful?

Off on another tangent if everybody doesn't mind. Any advantage in trying to play uptempo with this type offense? Not no huddle per say, but hurry up to the line try not to let them sub, adjust or shift on the Def before the snap?

coach msl

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2011, 11:23:03 AM »
I think there is a big advantage to running no huddle.  IMO, It is going to have be 'who you are' at practice.  Up tempo from day one.  I would LOVE to go no huddle.  Its on my bucket list.  Gona take some studying on how to organize my O, so I can teach it, rep it and run it.   

Matt

CoachKell

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2011, 01:25:26 PM »
I used to run no huddle exclusively, but now not so much, I find there are certain benefits to running from a huddle

Offline mahonz

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Re: Zone Blocking for 7th graders(12 and 13 years old)
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2011, 01:46:21 PM »
Mike - Thanks for the info. If we had Outside Zone, Trap, Wedge -(We ran Wedge last season so the kids know it)-  Play Pass and some type of mis-direction(Reverse, Counter, etc) in place for game one you think we could be successful?

Off on another tangent if everybody doesn't mind. Any advantage in trying to play uptempo with this type offense? Not no huddle per say, but hurry up to the line try not to let them sub, adjust or shift on the Def before the snap?

Matt

Couple of things…for wedge the line collapses down 50% not 100%, my mistake. And I wasn’t thinking when I posted that you are in AYL and get an extra week of pre season over me so you can certainly add in a scheme. Which one depends on what you want.

The reason I insist on good play action right away is that off the OZ action it is sooooo very good.

What you will experience with Zone blocking is your combos not working together. I strongly suggest participating in the Falkner thing. That will really push things along for you. What happens is both linemen will climb to the second level and your RB will lose yards….or the linemen will never climb to the second level leaving big plays on the field…or one will be indecisive and climb leaving his buddy one on one when he shouldn’t be.

The glaring difference between IZ and OZ is with IZ you are attacking right into the teeth of the defense so its pretty straight forward….combo the DL and either one will release to the second level. depending on the movement of the defense. With OZ it’s different. You are now stretching the defense and getting them to run laterally with every intention of rotating your blocking. This means now the uncovered man will bump the covered man off the defender after the covered man has stood up and turned the defender. So the covered man is the one tasked to climb 66% of the time. IZ he is now in a 50 / 50 deal.

Therefore…Zone takes a little time to dial in but once it does you will be very pleased.

That said.... OZ is more of a stretch play therefore we run it to a wide monument every time meaning the QB is opening up at 4 or 8 o’clock and really stretching to the RB. IZ the QB is opening up at 5  6 or 7 o’ clock. Therefore the play action boot by the QB is different. With OZ we have the QB boot back into a nice safe pocket. This is spectacular in my mind for many reasons. He does not have to boot around a backside defender, he has not cut the field in half by rolling out and he can comfortably set and throw rather than throwing on the run. Since he can set and throw, now you can play action both left and right with worrying if the QB can throw against his body.

So I am a gigantic fan of play action off the stretch action.

BUT…this will not work in an Ace formation. You need one back to play action to and another to protect the backside of your slide protection. The second back completes the pocket while the defense jumps the play action.  So split back or I formation is the key here. Maybe Rich can interject here since he now a one back Coach. Drop back passing out of Ace with slide protection....no problem.

Now if you want to boot keep we have the backside linemen reverse sift while the second back logs the edge defender.  This will get your OT on an outside path the OLB so he can horn him to the inside. Reverse sifting is an athletic move that requires a really strong punch. Not so much for the OG but certainly for the OT.  If the OT is weak on this then the QB has to take a deeper path on his boot action and slows the play down.

Anyway…you have time in your preseason to put in another scheme IMO.

As far as no huddle. I used to be 100% not huddle for many years. Not a fan of 100% no huddle anymore but will use it at times in certain packages like Beast of our Empty pure passing stuff. Couple of things. When things are going poorly I believe a huddle can help their mental wherewithal. Just a simple look into one another’s eyes to regain some confidence.  If the ref feels the D needs a blow he will give them one by putting his foot on the football until a substitution is made. Seen that happen before. You need 11 quick thinkers to go up tempo no huddle. When I was 100% no huddle the tempo varied. When I go no huddle with our Empty I still use the full play clock because I am reading the defense, which I believe is the only reason to go no huddle. Line up…read the D…call a play....meaning you may not be going at a fast pace. 

Some disagree but the no huddle has its disadvantages as well.

Coach Mike
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