Author Topic: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone  (Read 6350 times)

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Offline JB

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Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« on: March 09, 2011, 06:22:03 PM »
Please explain the differences.

What is IZ?

What is OZ?
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Online Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2011, 07:14:04 PM »
JB look at the thread for Zone Blocking for 7th graders.  Good discussion going on about this topic
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2011, 11:24:05 PM »
Please explain the differences.

What is IZ?

What is OZ?

JB

In a nutshell....

IZ is getting a vertical push by the offense into the teeth of the defense.

OZ is getting the defense to run horizontal with offense.

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CoachKell

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 06:27:37 AM »
Aiming point basically,

IZ the aiming point for the back is the outside leg of the guard

OZ we're aiming for the butt crack of the TE

You are actually trying to get vertical push on both, the stretch happens as a result of the natural flow of the defense

Offline mahonz

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 04:22:07 PM »
Rich

You are really confusing me here…. You must be really busy because you are the king of three-sentence posts now. You used to go into really good detail.  What are you a drive by poster now?  8)

IZ and OZ are very different in my mind…one drives the combo into the LB’r while the other rotates the combo into the LB’r. Two completely different combo animals predicated on the stretch / stretch double ( IZ) and pull takeover / rip reach (OZ) theories that Bill talks about. 

One is going up field ( IZ) while the other is going laterally at a 45 degree angle (OZ).

IZ creates a 50/ 50 scenario for the covered man to climb….OZ creates a 66 / 33 scenario that the covered man will climb. The chances change for a couple of reasons….LB’r has a great chance to fill right away due to the backs monument with IZ…LB’r will hang or scrape due to the backs monument with OZ.

Generally.

Right?

I have been pouring over all of my zone stuff to include watching our film because I am re-writing my zone rules. Our theories seem to differ in a few areas and I have a bunch of Bills stuff so I want to get dialed in here…realizing there is more than one way to skin a cat of course.

For example…I will not teach bucket stepping. Slide step so the uncovered man is square and can chip backside for my C when asked to. Plus counting seems excessive for a 5th grader.

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Offline Michael

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2011, 04:31:38 PM »
Plus counting seems excessive for a 5th grader.

I blame the schools.
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Offline cyflcoach

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2011, 04:45:36 PM »
IZ = Vertical Push scheme with little/slow or no rotation on combos - target near ear of down defender/back's initial aiming point is playside cheek of center/PSG - back reads PSDT (3 tech) while pressing the LOS

OZ = Next man over (full zone) or reach scheme with fast rotation on combos - target outside jersey number of down defender/back's initial aiming point is 3x1 to our tight end - back looks for first daylight outside the PST

@Mike, I only teach a drop (bucket) step on OZ when they are uncovered Mike.  Since the first thing we want to avoid is a clean run through at the POA, we only do it when uncovered.  I like teaching it though because the blocker's angles are much better for getting a shot at an outside number or pulling outside an adjacent pin block.   

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« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 04:49:37 PM by cyflcoach »
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CoachKell

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2011, 08:26:28 PM »
Rich

You are really confusing me here…. You must be really busy because you are the king of three-sentence posts now. You used to go into really good detail.  What are you a drive by poster now?  8)

IZ and OZ are very different in my mind…one drives the combo into the LB’r while the other rotates the combo into the LB’r. Two completely different combo animals predicated on the stretch / stretch double ( IZ) and pull takeover / rip reach (OZ) theories that Bill talks about. 

One is going up field ( IZ) while the other is going laterally at a 45 degree angle (OZ).

IZ creates a 50/ 50 scenario for the covered man to climb….OZ creates a 66 / 33 scenario that the covered man will climb. The chances change for a couple of reasons….LB’r has a great chance to fill right away due to the backs monument with IZ…LB’r will hang or scrape due to the backs monument with OZ.

Generally.

Right?

I have been pouring over all of my zone stuff to include watching our film because I am re-writing my zone rules. Our theories seem to differ in a few areas and I have a bunch of Bills stuff so I want to get dialed in here…realizing there is more than one way to skin a cat of course.

For example…I will not teach bucket stepping. Slide step so the uncovered man is square and can chip backside for my C when asked to. Plus counting seems excessive for a 5th grader.

Coach Mike

Yeah sorry, a lot going on .. Zone theory is the same no matter what.

We don't bucket step either our guys are deep enough off the lOS to facilitate the block .

When they say "run the defense horizontal" what they are referring to is the defensive pursuit to the wider angle of the running backs path, creating different cutback lanes, but really good angles.   

All the blocks are identical, except with OZ we try to get an outside slip with the T/E that's all,  that's IF we can get it.

If the DE comes up field on contain the TE has to stay with him, T will check step to the TE if the DE doesn't come back over the top by the time his second foot hits the ground he climbs

The runningback, is aiming for the ass crack of the TE, reading the TE's block if the DE goes upfield he cuts back behind him reading the next DL inside, if the DE's hat goes inside the RB is going to haul ass around the block

Now referring back to another post, some teams do not block the EMOL away from the play at all on IZ or OZ, 

We don't want to push the defense toward the sideline.

Here's Bill's (and everyone elses rules) see how similar they are 

With thanks to Joe Bugel & Alex Gibbs:

INSIDE ZONE TECHNIQUE (DRIVE BLOCK TECHNIQUES):

A. COVERED: Take a 6” lead step aiming eyes at playside number. Second step to crotch (do not crossover). Hands at base of shoulder pads.

1. If DLM stretches with you – stay on block and uncovered teammate works up on LBer.

2. If DLM anchors on you – double team with uncovered teammate. Stay on block until wiped off & then work upfield aiming eyes to playside number of LBer.

3. If DLM slants inside – force him to flatten his slant and double team with uncovered teammate. Stay on block until wiped off & then work upfield aiming eyes to playside number of LBer.

B. UNCOVERED: Take a 6” lead step aiming eyes at helmet of DLM. Do not cross over on second step.

1. If helmet goes out on your 1st step – 2nd step upfield aiming eyes to playside number of LBer.

2. If helmet stays put – double team (hip to hip) with covered teammate & wipe him off on Lber.

3. If helmet slants inside - get eyes to his playside number. Double team with covered teammate & wipe him off on LBer.



OUTSIDE ZONE TECHNIQUE (REACH BLOCK TECHNIQUES):

A. COVERED: Take a 6” lead step aiming eyes at playside arm pit. Second step slightly outside crotch (do not crossover). Inside hand on midline & outside hand under armpit.

1. If DLM stretches with you – stay on block and uncovered teammate works up on LBer.

2. If DLM anchors on you – stay on block with eyes on playside arm pit.

3. If DLM slants inside – force him to flatten his slant by stiff arming him inside. Stay on block until you feel uncovered teammate & then come off aiming eyes to playside number of LBer.

B. UNCOVERED: Take a 6” lead step aiming eyes at helmet of DLM. You may crossover on second step.

1. If helmet goes out & you haven’t contacted DLM by 3rd. step – work upfield aiming eyes to playside armpit of LBer.

2. If helmet stays put – shove him over to covered teammate and work upfield aiming eyes to playside armpit of LBer.

3. If helmet slants inside – aim eyes to his playside armpit. Take him over & wipe covered teammate off to LBer.

******************************************************



ZONE RULES:

TEACH “COVERED/UNCOVERED” (TO DETERMINES WHO ZONE BLOCKS
AND WHO MAN BLOCKS).

A. IF YOU ARE UNCOVERED (BY A DLM) – ZONE WITH YOUR PLAYSIDE TEAMMATE.

B. IF YOU ARE COVERED (BY A DLM) – ZONE WITH YOUR BACKSIDE TEAMMATE (UNLESS HE IS COVERED THEN YOU MUST MAN BLOCK).

NOTE: IF YOUR MAN IS STACKED IN A “TANDEM” – ZONE WITH TEAMMATE WHOSE MAN IS ALSO STACKED.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 08:32:28 PM by CoachKell »

Offline mahonz

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2011, 11:43:19 PM »
Yeah sorry, a lot going on

Rich

I figured as much so I registered for the PSFA today so I can keep up with you and that guy that wears those funny Bike shorts.   8)

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Offline jem

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2011, 10:07:59 AM »
I am no expert on zone so take what I am saying with a grain or twelve of salt.... but one time on the classic site when Mike mentioned rotating zone, Bill made the comment you have been talking to "so-in-so" (can't remember his name.  But Bill seemed to indicate somebody out there stressed the rotating zone).  Before Bill came to the site I had seen some film somewhere on the rotating zone, so it appears to my pea brain that there are 2 different schools of thought....   anyways it kinda reminds me of the DW style argument..... Markham vs Wyatt.  Some DW'ers say that Wyatt really doesn't teach the true DW because of his Wing-T influence.  I personally call Wyatts style the Double Wing-T and Markham's style the DW.... but that is just me. 

(Now the question is.... if there are 2 different schools of thought does that mean one is True 'Zone' and the other way is something else entirely just using the 'Zone' name for lack of a better name?  That may be the true question.  How do you define Zone Blocking?  Is it a specific method made popular by a specific Coach or set of Coaches? or is it a thought process that can use various methods of accomplishing the same goal?  To me Bills version of Zone basically is man blocking looking for the double team.  Other versions I have seen are more of an area concept (covered/uncovered) looking for the double team and even other versions I have seen is basically just Scoop/reach blocking not even looking for the double team but just trying to horizontal stretch the line so the back can find a gap to cutback thru, which Bill stated to me adamantly wasn't  Zone.  So which is the true Zone?    [One coaches Flag route is another Coaches 45-Out.]  Anyways...)

Thats My 27 cents!  I know it didn't truly add anything, but it was fun as hell to write  :D

j
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CoachKell

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2011, 12:06:30 PM »
Chalk it up to the universal language of football, I mean how many coaches nowadays are lining up in a doube slot, and calling it Flexbone?

The Zone I use you can trace the lineage of .. the rotating thing I've never heard of or seen

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2011, 12:14:49 PM »
Rich

I figured as much so I registered for the PSFA today so I can keep up with you and that guy that wears those funny Bike shorts.   8)

Coach Mike

Yes I saw that... have to add a first name to your screen name there though bud.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2011, 01:56:30 PM »
Yes I saw that... have to add a first name to your screen name there though bud.

Rich

No problem

When I registered it errored on the name thing even though I was under the 18 max but I figured I could add Mike in the profile....correct?

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Offline jem

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2011, 05:57:12 PM »
Chalk it up to the universal language of football, I mean how many coaches nowadays are lining up in a doube slot, and calling it Flexbone?


But FlexBone sounds so Cool!!!!!!!   8)     :D ;D :D ;D

j
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Online Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2011, 11:35:43 PM »
But FlexBone sounds so Cool!!!!!!!   8)     :D ;D :D ;D

j

Done well it runs cool too. 

I want to pass from my my Wishbone!    ;D
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