Author Topic: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone  (Read 6348 times)

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CoachKell

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2011, 08:12:50 AM »
But FlexBone sounds so Cool!!!!!!!   8)     :D ;D :D ;D

j

I hate it when people think formation=scheme,

"we're running the pistol", is another one

Offline jem

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2011, 06:07:36 PM »
... but one time on the classic site when Mike mentioned rotating zone, Bill made the comment you have been talking to "so-in-so" (can't remember his name.  But Bill seemed to indicate somebody out there stressed the rotating zone). 

... the rotating thing I've never heard of or seen

Rich,
Ask Bill one day 'bout that somebody who teaches rotating the zone..... to make sure I am not losing my mind.... hell I could be.... anyways just curious, no hurry.  Like I said.... a grain of salt ;D

j
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 09:06:01 PM by jem »
"I truly believe it’s not what you know – it’s what you can teach."  Tony DeMeo

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Offline jem

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2011, 06:08:12 PM »
I hate it when people think formation=scheme,

"we're running the pistol", is another one
:D
"I truly believe it’s not what you know – it’s what you can teach."  Tony DeMeo

"Victory is always possible for the person who refuses to stop fighting."  Napoleon Hill

"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford

Offline cyflcoach

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2011, 06:18:24 PM »
Are you referring to rotation, as they relate to the speed and angles at which combination blocks are executed in relation to zone schemes?  Jerry Campbell uses the term as it relates to where the ball is delivered from the center.  There's no doubt there are differences in philosophy and methodology when it comes to zone blocking.  Like so many other things in coaching, I think you have to find something that is fundamentally sound and makes sense to you as a coach.  For me that is often a combination of methods from various coaches who's opinions and experiences I value a great deal along with my own experiences teaching it.

Dave Hartman
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Paul "Bear" Bryant

Offline jem

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2011, 09:09:42 PM »
Are you referring to rotation, as they relate to the speed and angles at which combination blocks are executed in relation to zone schemes?  Jerry Campbell uses the term as it relates to where the ball is delivered from the center.  There's no doubt there are differences in philosophy and methodology when it comes to zone blocking.  Like so many other things in coaching, I think you have to find something that is fundamentally sound and makes sense to you as a coach.  For me that is often a combination of methods from various coaches who's opinions and experiences I value a great deal along with my own experiences teaching it.

Dave Hartman
CYFL Coach

Dave,

When Bill had first come on the old classic site he and Mahonz were having a discussion (i believe it was Mike) about Zone and Mike mentioned rotating the zone or zone rotation and Bill said something to the effect " you have been talking to so-in-so".  Anyways just something that caught my attention and I am half-ass remembering it now.  Not really important... just checking my memory ... or my hallucinations  :D  thats all.

j
"I truly believe it’s not what you know – it’s what you can teach."  Tony DeMeo

"Victory is always possible for the person who refuses to stop fighting."  Napoleon Hill

"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford

Offline mahonz

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2011, 10:51:28 PM »
Dave,

When Bill had first come on the old classic site he and Mahonz were having a discussion (i believe it was Mike) about Zone and Mike mentioned rotating the zone or zone rotation and Bill said something to the effect " you have been talking to so-in-so".  Anyways just something that caught my attention and I am half-ass remembering it now.  Not really important... just checking my memory ... or my hallucinations  :D  thats all.

j

Jem

You are correct. This is an OZ thing. I will draw up some scenarios of how I was taught on how the zone rotates. Hard to describe really but I watch it happen on our film all the time. This concept of teaching made sense to me especially when teaching  the young backs what to look for as far as the linebackers. Its something Coach Wilshmerr ( sp?) explained to me that simplifies the 4 hand 4 eyes thing as well. He felt that kids would struggle with the 4 hands 4 eyes concept and backs reading pre snap techniques may be a tall order as well. So he simplified these concepts for me and I rolled with his ideas....so far so good. He was the only upper level coach that took the time to really get into the nuts and bolts with me....without rolling his eyes....back when I asked a ton of questions to anyone that would listen...and there werent many willing to help a Smurf coach. At the time it seemed I was the only youth coach asking these questions so now Im glad Im not alone anymore.  8)

He also insisted that if I got proficient with slide stepping then our zone world comes together much faster because the zone will rotate much quicker....which is what you want. He also insisted that OZ would be just fine for the kids. IZ...maybe...and that has been my experiences to the letter.

So you are not insane.  :D

In a nut shell...OZ right everyone initially runs right but eventually looks left including the back...and whatever happens....happens. What cut the back takes if any is dependent on what he sees left at the handoff monument but he will not cut until he has pressed his landmark all the way to the LOS. Then the zone has at least begun to rotate and the alleys open up....the back can bounce to the outside....stay the course....or cut back into the defense. How fast the zone rotates tells the back what to do. Why the zone rotates depends on about 10 different things and why I will draft something up.


...and yes BIll did poke a little fun at me but we got along famously in our zone world....until I told him I could clearly see his nuts. I shouldnt have said that.  :-[...but I was joking.  ::)...just picked a bad moment to kid around.  :(

Coach Mike
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 10:54:19 PM by mahonz »
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline jem

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2011, 11:31:09 PM »
Jem

You are correct. This is an OZ thing. I will draw up some scenarios of how I was taught on how the zone rotates. Hard to describe really but I watch it happen on our film all the time. This concept of teaching made sense to me especially when teaching  the young backs what to look for as far as the linebackers. Its something Coach Wilshmerr ( sp?) explained to me that simplifies the 4 hand 4 eyes thing as well. He felt that kids would struggle with the 4 hands 4 eyes concept and backs reading pre snap techniques may be a tall order as well. So he simplified these concepts for me and I rolled with his ideas....so far so good. He was the only upper level coach that took the time to really get into the nuts and bolts with me....without rolling his eyes....back when I asked a ton of questions to anyone that would listen...and there werent many willing to help a Smurf coach. At the time it seemed I was the only youth coach asking these questions so now Im glad Im not alone anymore.  8)

He also insisted that if I got proficient with slide stepping then our zone world comes together much faster because the zone will rotate much quicker....which is what you want. He also insisted that OZ would be just fine for the kids. IZ...maybe...and that has been my experiences to the letter.

So you are not insane.  :D

In a nut shell...OZ right everyone initially runs right but eventually looks left including the back...and whatever happens....happens. What cut the back takes if any is dependent on what he sees left at the handoff monument but he will not cut until he has pressed his landmark all the way to the LOS. Then the zone has at least begun to rotate and the alleys open up....the back can bounce to the outside....stay the course....or cut back into the defense. How fast the zone rotates tells the back what to do. Why the zone rotates depends on about 10 different things and why I will draft something up.

Thanks Mike... now I can tell my wife that you said I wasn't Insane!  :)

...and yes BIll did poke a little fun at me but we got along famously in our zone world....until I told him I could clearly see his nuts. I shouldnt have said that.  :-[...but I was joking.  ::)...just picked a bad moment to kid around.  :(

Coach Mike

SO THAT WASN'T A HALLUCINATION EITHER?   :o   :D ;D :)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 11:33:44 PM by jem »
"I truly believe it’s not what you know – it’s what you can teach."  Tony DeMeo

"Victory is always possible for the person who refuses to stop fighting."  Napoleon Hill

"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford

Offline cyflcoach

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2011, 12:02:27 PM »
Mike,

I hate to ask for clarification on this but... enquiring minds want to know... at least I think they do!  :D

Did you tell Bill you could see his nuts?
OR
Did you tell Bill you could see he is nuts?

Dave Hartman
CYFL Coach

"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters."

Paul "Bear" Bryant

Offline mahonz

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2011, 12:25:21 PM »
Mike,

I hate to ask for clarification on this but... enquiring minds want to know... at least I think they do!  :D

Did you tell Bill you could see his nuts?
OR
Did you tell Bill you could see he is nuts?

Dave Hartman
CYFL Coach

Dave

It was during one of his diatribes and a playful play on words that he fully understood and did not appreciate. He got really upset with me which I regret because I was just playing around.

"Bill…I have to disagree with you on this one. I can now clearly see your nuts." Instead of ….  I can clearly see that you’re nuts.

Coach Mike


What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2011, 01:26:05 PM »
Bill offered a lot of information and insight. However, there were times when his tolerance level for leavity or opposing thoughts was less than Zero.  That lead to some Big Horns butting heads.  That happens.

Would love to see him (Bill) write a book.  It would be interesting to say the least.   ;) 
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Offline Michael

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Re: Inside Zone versus Outside Zone
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2011, 01:29:36 PM »
He had so much information it was ridiculous.

You could mention something Army did in the 40s, and he'd post a bunch of clinic notes and that section of the Army playbook.
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