Author Topic: 4 "MUSTS" IN ONEBACK ZONE STYLE OFFENSE:  (Read 3949 times)

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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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4 "MUSTS" IN ONEBACK ZONE STYLE OFFENSE:
« on: April 28, 2010, 04:41:14 PM »
4 “MUST DO’S” OF THE ONEBACK OFFENSE

#1 = RUN AS OFTEN TO THE SPLIT END SIDE AS THE TIGHT END SIDE.

#2 = RUN AS OFTEN AWAY FROM MOTION AS YOU DO TO THE MOTION SIDE.

#3 = PASS AS OFTEN AWAY FROM THE SIDE THE RB “CHECKS” AS YOU DO TO THE SIDE HE “CHECKS”.

#4 = RUN AS OFTEN AWAY FROM SIDE RB TAKES HIS FIRST STEP TO (USING POWER/COUNTER/H-AROUND) ETC., AS YOU DO TO THE SIDE OF HIS FIRST STEP.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 04:57:53 PM by BillMountjoy »
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Offline defensewins

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Re: 4 "MUSTS" IN ONEBACK ZONE STYLE OFFENSE:
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 09:45:59 PM »
I understand the thought process for items 1,2 and 4.  However, #3, I don't understand.  Not saying I disagree, I just don't "get it."  I think it is because I primarily deal with 6 man protections that would include the RB so the concept wouldn't have much to do with the back at all.  Can you share the philosophy behind why #3 is a "must" for a oneback zone system?

Offline lost episodes

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Re: 4 "MUSTS" IN ONEBACK ZONE STYLE OFFENSE:
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 10:10:33 PM »
I understand the thought process for items 1,2 and 4.  However, #3, I don't understand.  Not saying I disagree, I just don't "get it."  I think it is because I primarily deal with 6 man protections that would include the RB so the concept wouldn't have much to do with the back at all.  Can you share the philosophy behind why #3 is a "must" for a oneback zone system?

I think because of the offset of the line most coaches won't realize your advantage or theirs is that close Coach Bill

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: 4 "MUSTS" IN ONEBACK ZONE STYLE OFFENSE:
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 10:52:13 PM »
I understand the thought process for items 1,2 and 4.  However, #3, I don't understand.  Not saying I disagree, I just don't "get it."  I think it is because I primarily deal with 6 man protections that would include the RB so the concept wouldn't have much to do with the back at all.  Can you share the philosophy behind why #3 is a "must" for a oneback zone system?

Many teams will line up 4 across in Cover 4 or Cover 3 Double Invert, & bring the Safety DOWN to the side the RB steps to on pass or run.  This puts the STRENGTH of the coverage to THAT side.  You must be able to RUN (COUNTER) or PASS AWAY from the side the Safety comes down to.

The ORIGINAL "COUNTER-TREY" was developed specifically for this purpose!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 12:54:16 PM by BillMountjoy »
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Offline defensewins

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Re: 4 "MUSTS" IN ONEBACK ZONE STYLE OFFENSE:
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2010, 12:45:08 PM »
I understand what you are getting at...we've just never linked that thought process to the RB.  It makes sense for 2x2 formations a little bit more.  We've always based it off of the coverage.  For example, if we have TE trips and a SE to the other side (3x1), they're going to be in a bastardized cover three or quarters (if zone) or a man coverage.  In this situation we want to see what the coverage is like to the side away from the TE trips.  If that LB is far removed and they're in zone, we want to run the ball.  If the LB is tight, we want to work a 1v1 concept to the SE.  If they are in man to the 3 WR side, then we want to work that side.  Lastly, if we see an opportunity to put the curl/force defender in a role conflict while releasing the RB (to essentially high/low him) then we will do that is well (but not that often for the mere fact that 99% of our protections are six man protections with the RB in).

We've always compartmentalized the protection and the concept (I can't say that 100% due to the fact that we have routes to counteract particular blitzes and/or hot routes, etc.).  To the kids, they are completely separate. 

At the end of the day, we've looked at how the defense is defending our formation and attacked a favorable matchup.  I'd assume that it is the same thing as you are saying in #3 of your original post.  If you can't attack to both sides in the passing game, then you are giving the defense a huge advantage.

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: 4 "MUSTS" IN ONEBACK ZONE STYLE OFFENSE:
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 01:12:01 PM »
Your last paragraph is "right on".

In the RUNNING game - if that playside Safety comes ROARING down on let's say an INSIDE ZONE - he becomes the "8th hat in the box" - USUALLY unblocked!  The DADDY of the ONEBACK offense (Joe Gibbs) SAID THAT THE best RUNS ARE "into the well" (side where there is NO secondary run support immediately available).  In the PASSING game - he dictates (of course)  the STRENGTH of the coverage.

We started running Joe Gibbs' offense in 1981.  Both HE (& I) will tell you from experience that secondaries FREQUENTLY make their rotations OFF THE RB (he is understandably the BEST key for the defense).

3 of our 6 runs end up AWAY from where the RB takes his FIRST STEP.  We have a NUMBER of passes (both Dropback, Play Action, & Dash Pass) that are thrown away from the direction the RB goes!

We feel (from experience) that the ABOVE thoughts are VITAL to our success in the "ONEBACK".

PS:  LOOK AT ATTACHMENT:  SAFETIES 8 YARDS DEEP:  Teams do this vs. us from "Quarters", "3 Invert", "Robber", etc.  They move on the RB's FIRST STEP.  As he reads the RB's first step - the Safety coming down can get a QUICK run/pass key from the block or release of the TE.  It is OBVIOUS here that the COUNTER to the SE side is better than the Inside Zone to the TE side.  Also passes left would be thrown away from rotation.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 02:47:21 PM by BillMountjoy »
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: 4 "MUSTS" IN ONEBACK ZONE STYLE OFFENSE:
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2010, 02:11:26 PM »
I understand what you are getting at...we've just never linked that thought process to the RB.  It makes sense for 2x2 formations a little bit more.  We've always based it off of the coverage.  For example, if we have TE trips and a SE to the other side (3x1), they're going to be in a bastardized cover three or quarters (if zone) or a man coverage.  In this situation we want to see what the coverage is like to the side away from the TE trips.  If that LB is far removed and they're in zone, we want to run the ball.  If the LB is tight, we want to work a 1v1 concept to the SE.  If they are in man to the 3 WR side, then we want to work that side.  Lastly, if we see an opportunity to put the curl/force defender in a role conflict while releasing the RB (to essentially high/low him) then we will do that is well (but not that often for the mere fact that 99% of our protections are six man protections with the RB in).

We've always compartmentalized the protection and the concept (I can't say that 100% due to the fact that we have routes to counteract particular blitzes and/or hot routes, etc.).  To the kids, they are completely separate. 

At the end of the day, we've looked at how the defense is defending our formation and attacked a favorable matchup.  I'd assume that it is the same thing as you are saying in #3 of your original post.  If you can't attack to both sides in the passing game, then you are giving the defense a huge advantage.

Produced results this season:

Powhatan Indians High School Football Schedule

Date    Opponent    Result

9/11/09

Midlothian (Midlothian, VA)
   30-0 (W)


9/18/09

@ Monticello (Charlottesville, VA)
   56-6 (W)


9/25/09

Caroline (Milford, VA)
   56-0 (W)


10/02/09

Nottoway (Nottoway, VA) *
   54-13 (W)



10/09/09

@ Greensville County (Emporia, VA) *
   51-8 (W)


10/16/09

Southampton (Courtland, VA) *
   35-7 (W)


10/23/09

@ Bluestone (Skipwith, VA) *
   55-0 (W)


10/30/09

Brunswick (Lawrenceville, VA) *
   31-6 (W)



11/06/09

@ Prince Edward County (Farmville, VA) *
   57-7 (W)


11/13/09

@ Park View (South Hill, VA) *
   37-0 (W)


11/20/09

York (Yorktown, VA) *** (Regional Semis)
   49-0 (W)



11/28/09

Chancellor (Fredericksburg, VA) *** (Regional Finals)
   34-18 (W)



12/05/09

Broad Run (Ashburn, VA) STATE SEMI-FINALS
   7-20 (L)



WON 12 - LOSS 1

OFFENSE SCORED = 552 POINTS     DEFENSE GAVE UP = 85 POINTS
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 04:07:48 PM by BillMountjoy »
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Offline learn2coach16

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Re: 4 "MUSTS" IN ONEBACK ZONE STYLE OFFENSE:
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2017, 06:10:25 AM »
Your last paragraph is "right on".

In the RUNNING game - if that playside Safety comes ROARING down on let's say an INSIDE ZONE - he becomes the "8th hat in the box" - USUALLY unblocked!  The DADDY of the ONEBACK offense (Joe Gibbs) SAID THAT THE best RUNS ARE "into the well" (side where there is NO secondary run support immediately available).  In the PASSING game - he dictates (of course)  the STRENGTH of the coverage.

We started running Joe Gibbs' offense in 1981.  Both HE (& I) will tell you from experience that secondaries FREQUENTLY make their rotations OFF THE RB (he is understandably the BEST key for the defense).

3 of our 6 runs end up AWAY from where the RB takes his FIRST STEP.  We have a NUMBER of passes (both Dropback, Play Action, & Dash Pass) that are thrown away from the direction the RB goes!

We feel (from experience) that the ABOVE thoughts are VITAL to our success in the "ONEBACK".

PS:  LOOK AT ATTACHMENT:  SAFETIES 8 YARDS DEEP:  Teams do this vs. us from "Quarters", "3 Invert", "Robber", etc.  They move on the RB's FIRST STEP.  As he reads the RB's first step - the Safety coming down can get a QUICK run/pass key from the block or release of the TE.  It is OBVIOUS here that the COUNTER to the SE side is better than the Inside Zone to the TE side. Also passes left would be thrown away from rotation.

Why is this true? Wouldn't there in theory be 4 defenders to each side making it equal? Also if its equal why not run to the side where the safety is the extra player rather then a backer?



Offline blockandtackle

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Re: 4 "MUSTS" IN ONEBACK ZONE STYLE OFFENSE:
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 10:53:56 AM »
Why is this true? Wouldn't there in theory be 4 defenders to each side making it equal? Also if its equal why not run to the side where the safety is the extra player rather then a backer?

In that diagram, the defense is only balanced pre snap, but they are keying the RB's first step and rotating the S that way..

If you look in the diagram, on that first step, you'll have 5 defenders weak (S and MLB each count as 1/2) and 6 strong on the first step because as soon as that RB steps to the TE side, the S is coming up hard on the run while the FS is rotating to the middle of the field.  The defense becomes unbalanced on that first step.

If you were to call Counter Trey in that situation, the RB would step to the TE side to draw the rotation up that way, then go back opposite to attack the side where the offense has the numbers.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: 4 "MUSTS" IN ONEBACK ZONE STYLE OFFENSE:
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 12:24:33 PM »
this is why you need to understand the defense you are playing against. The influence step of the counter  will really screw them up. IZ would of been feeding into the defense.

Offline defensewins

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Re: 4 "MUSTS" IN ONEBACK ZONE STYLE OFFENSE:
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 01:05:24 PM »
In the diagram, they are rolling AWAY from the CUTBACK on IZ...advantage offense.