Author Topic: zone blocking vs rule blocking  (Read 7354 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline coachnick

  • Silver
  • Posts: 1921
  • Total likes: 17
  • offense dw defense gambler
  • Coaching: High School
  • Offense: Multiple
zone blocking vs rule blocking
« on: May 20, 2010, 07:35:08 PM »
Here is a question and some responses from Coach Calande's forum.    I posted the original question and there were a few responses.  I would like to get your reaction to them... thanks   Here it is:

question: Ok coaches..... I would like your opinion........ If you are running a pro style/spread type offense do you like zone blocking(for the running game) or do you prefer rule blocking... combination of both???

why or why not???? reasons??  thanks!!!! If anyone hates zone blocking for high school  please say why. thanks
 
 
response 1. O.K. I hate zone blocking unless you have 5 kids who are the size and strength of an NFL team, plus a dominating TE. Nothing but mush at the point of attack, and trouble picking up slants and blitzes. Zone blocking is one of the reasons that the 3-5 with all of the multiple stunts has been so successful. Creates too much uncertainty on the LOS. Plus, if you've got a weak link on the line, you can't hide him.
Also, you need a gifted, strong, soft spot runner with great vision. Do you have one? Most of us don't.
Still, if you want to simplify your blocking schemes so you can work on your pass blocking more, go ahead and use zone blocking. (pardon my sarcasm).
I formation with rule blocking allows you to see where your breakdowns are occuring, And with a zone scheme, you're never going to be sure until you see the film. A little too late to help.
Just my opinion, the zone guys obviously think that they have the answers. Who has the chalk last?
 
response 2.  ALL BLOCKING REQUIRES RULES.

I want my kids FIRING OFF THE BALL not stepping side ways and playing patty cake
 
response 3.  I believe there are a couple misconception about zone in this thread.


1.) It is violent......AS violent as any other run scheme. It's as much vertical push as any other double team scheme. The lateral movement DOES NOT negate the momentum.

2.) It was designed to handle blitzes and slants and stunts......I really don't understand this point. Teams zone block because it catches every front and twist in an easy to manage manner.

3.) Nothing is simplier than covered/uncovered rules. I'm covered, base my man, combo to LB. I'm uncovered, step playside and double team with adjacent OL, combo to LB.

4.) Teaching an RB to run Zone is as easy as teaching him to run Power.......press your landmark, make your cut.

5.) Hardly personnel intensive........does require you to build soild footed OL guys in the off-season, but no size requirements



Now, not everyone knows it and can teach it, and that is fine, that is a matter of personal preference.



But the crap works (ask Bill Williams)


To poster's question, I can answer what we do as a spread team.


Because of the wide splits we use at my school, we use more of a gap blocking scheme.


We reach/base block, and we'll pull the BS OG to lead frontside........really simple, and with the wiiiiiiide splits, it is all we need to move the rock on the ground. 
 Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged
 

response 4. Define "covered"

What you just did was create a rule.

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24264
  • Total likes: 2541
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 8 & Under
  • Defense: 3-5-3
  • Offense: Wing T
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2010, 08:35:34 PM »
Nick

The title of your thread confuses me. Zone blocking has rules.

Asking this question in the War Room confuses me. They are DWingnuts and think hands blocking is for wussies. I went and read the thread...Dubber I respect and has one opinion...Calande I respect and has another opinion... so what is your opinion?

To answer your question...I like running zone. It saves me practice time so I can work on the really important stuff...pass blocking.  ;)

Coach Mike
What is beautiful, lives forever.

CoachKell

  • Guest
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2010, 08:44:16 PM »
All you need to do is talk to Bill Mountjoy, and Mike Mahonz.

I began to use zone sparingly last season, when our veer scheme collapsed...I'll never go back.

Offline seeindouble

  • Silver
  • Posts: 2144
  • Total likes: 0
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: 5-3
  • Offense: Undecided
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2010, 09:43:47 PM »
I think that question is both relative, and subjective, to the level of competition you face. I know in our league, if you so much as have ONE blocking rule, you'll be assured of having a successful season, I'm pretty sure other posters can attest to that. Personally, in our situation, I like the idea of teaching zone blocking as a base scheme, and supplementing it with other blocking schemes/rules...   
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 10:33:32 PM by seeindouble »

Offline catback

  • Copper
  • Posts: 50
  • Total likes: 0
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: 5-2
  • Offense: I Formation
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2010, 09:49:22 PM »
Tried Mahonz youth zone scheme last year but went back to rule blocking 4th game. Seemed to take away some of our aggressiveness. Im sure it works well for him just didnt work well for us. Anyone who wants to zone block should get a copy. I think he used it with 5th graders.

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

  • Gold
  • Posts: 4611
  • Total likes: 73
  • Read Only Account. Please no PM's or Emails
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Undecided
  • Offense: Undecided
  • Title: Retired
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2010, 11:15:44 PM »
Here is a question and some responses from Coach Calande's forum.    I posted the original question and there were a few responses.  I would like to get your reaction to them... thanks   Here it is:

question: Ok coaches..... I would like your opinion........ If you are running a pro style/spread type offense do you like zone blocking(for the running game) or do you prefer rule blocking... combination of both???

why or why not???? reasons??  thanks!!!! If anyone hates zone blocking for high school  please say why. thanks
 
 
response 1. O.K. I hate zone blocking unless you have 5 kids who are the size and strength of an NFL team, plus a dominating TE. Nothing but mush at the point of attack, and trouble picking up slants and blitzes. Zone blocking is one of the reasons that the 3-5 with all of the multiple stunts has been so successful. Creates too much uncertainty on the LOS. Plus, if you've got a weak link on the line, you can't hide him.
Also, you need a gifted, strong, soft spot runner with great vision. Do you have one? Most of us don't.
Still, if you want to simplify your blocking schemes so you can work on your pass blocking more, go ahead and use zone blocking. (pardon my sarcasm).
I formation with rule blocking allows you to see where your breakdowns are occuring, And with a zone scheme, you're never going to be sure until you see the film. A little too late to help.
Just my opinion, the zone guys obviously think that they have the answers. Who has the chalk last?
 
response 2.  ALL BLOCKING REQUIRES RULES.

I want my kids FIRING OFF THE BALL not stepping side ways and playing patty cake
 
response 3.  I believe there are a couple misconception about zone in this thread.


1.) It is violent......AS violent as any other run scheme. It's as much vertical push as any other double team scheme. The lateral movement DOES NOT negate the momentum.

2.) It was designed to handle blitzes and slants and stunts......I really don't understand this point. Teams zone block because it catches every front and twist in an easy to manage manner.

3.) Nothing is simplier than covered/uncovered rules. I'm covered, base my man, combo to LB. I'm uncovered, step playside and double team with adjacent OL, combo to LB.

4.) Teaching an RB to run Zone is as easy as teaching him to run Power.......press your landmark, make your cut.

5.) Hardly personnel intensive........does require you to build soild footed OL guys in the off-season, but no size requirements



Now, not everyone knows it and can teach it, and that is fine, that is a matter of personal preference.



But the crap works (ask Bill Williams)


To poster's question, I can answer what we do as a spread team.


Because of the wide splits we use at my school, we use more of a gap blocking scheme.


We reach/base block, and we'll pull the BS OG to lead frontside........really simple, and with the wiiiiiiide splits, it is all we need to move the rock on the ground. 
 Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged
 

response 4. Define "covered"

What you just did was create a rule.

ZONE BLOCKING HAS BLOCKING RULES.  Go to the ZONE forum on DC - there are TONS of posts about zone blocking.  I believe you may not understand it fully. 

ZONE RULES:

TEACH “COVERED/UNCOVERED” (TO DETERMINES WHO ZONE BLOCKS
           AND WHO MAN BLOCKS).

A.   IF YOU ARE UNCOVERED (BY A DLM) – ZONE WITH YOUR PLAYSIDE TEAMMATE.

B.   IF YOU ARE COVERED (BY A DLM) – ZONE WITH YOUR BACKSIDE TEAMMATE (UNLESS HE IS COVERED THEN YOU MUST MAN BLOCK).

NOTE:  IF YOUR MAN IS STACKED IN A “TANDEM” – ZONE WITH TEAMMATE WHOSE MAN IS ALSO STACKED.

My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24264
  • Total likes: 2541
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 8 & Under
  • Defense: 3-5-3
  • Offense: Wing T
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2010, 11:32:33 PM »
Tried Mahonz youth zone scheme last year but went back to rule blocking 4th game. Seemed to take away some of our aggressiveness. Im sure it works well for him just didnt work well for us. Anyone who wants to zone block should get a copy. I think he used it with 5th graders.

I believe it can be hit and miss. The 7th grade team I coached last year never really got it. It was my first year coaching this team.  I was a bit surprised. I had huge linemen and they were soft as soft can be. Even wedge blocking...that brings out that agression...didnt work.

Coach Mike
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline CoachCalande

  • Platinum
  • Posts: 8061
  • Total likes: 773
  • Its never been "My bad"
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: 46
  • Offense: Double Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2010, 05:32:10 AM »
I agree, zone blocking is a form of rule blocking.

Like it or not, you had to define COVERED and thats a rule. GOOD in our good god blocking system is a means of finding out if we are COVERED OR UNCOVERED.  inside gap to outside gap= a man there makes us covered, no man there makes us uncovered. THE DIFFERENCE IS in what happens when a blocker is uncovered....in a zone scheme he scoops to the playside to help out, in gap/down schemes he blocks DOWN and has an angle.

The schemes are designed to do different things so I am not sure why we often make comparisons between the two. If you are going to ask me which I prefer, a zone scheme that creates double teams vs a base blocked single man scheme, then yes, Ill choose the zone concept every time.  Why compare zone to double down and kickout gap schemes?

Doesnt really make much sense.
MOJO    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtcRmKnRcsA

Go to WWW.COACHCALANDE.COM  for Double Wing DVDs, Playbook, Drills Manuals, Practice footage and emagazines. Ask me about our new 38 special dvds!

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

  • Gold
  • Posts: 4611
  • Total likes: 73
  • Read Only Account. Please no PM's or Emails
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Undecided
  • Offense: Undecided
  • Title: Retired
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2010, 08:20:19 AM »
I agree, zone blocking is a form of rule blocking.

Like it or not, you had to define COVERED and thats a rule. GOOD in our good god blocking system is a means of finding out if we are COVERED OR UNCOVERED.  inside gap to outside gap= a man there makes us covered, no man there makes us uncovered. THE DIFFERENCE IS in what happens when a blocker is uncovered....in a zone scheme he scoops to the playside to help out, in gap/down schemes he blocks DOWN and has an angle.

The schemes are designed to do different things so I am not sure why we often make comparisons between the two. If you are going to ask me which I prefer, a zone scheme that creates double teams vs a base blocked single man scheme, then yes, Ill choose the zone concept every time.  Why compare zone to double down and kickout gap schemes?

Doesnt really make much sense.

Our method of determining WHO the covered & uncoved man is, is the simple  "count" system (as used my MANY HS, College & Pro teams - including National Champion Alabama).

The Center blocks 0;  the Guards block 1;  the Tackles block 2;  & the TE blocks 3.  If a kid can count to 3 - he is in business.

We have a ZONE discussion threat on the DC site which DETAILS all of this.  Anyuone with zone QUESTIONS should go to this thread!
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com

Offline coachnick

  • Silver
  • Posts: 1921
  • Total likes: 17
  • offense dw defense gambler
  • Coaching: High School
  • Offense: Multiple
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2010, 11:19:58 AM »
Nick

The title of your thread confuses me. Zone blocking has rules.

Asking this question in the War Room confuses me. They are DWingnuts and think hands blocking is for wussies. I went and read the thread...Dubber I respect and has one opinion...Calande I respect and has another opinion... so what is your opinion?

To answer your question...I like running zone. It saves me practice time so I can work on the really important stuff...pass blocking.  ;)

Coach Mike

I understand zone has rules..... I think you know what I mean by zone blocking vs. rule blocking.......I dont like zone because I like zero splits and double teams..... I see no reason to zone block....... (that is my style though)  I prefer to ask the questions and read the info though lol...

Offline coachnick

  • Silver
  • Posts: 1921
  • Total likes: 17
  • offense dw defense gambler
  • Coaching: High School
  • Offense: Multiple
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2010, 11:24:57 AM »
And another thing----yes coaches I know you are saying that "zone has rules"----NO KIDDING!!!!   I GET THAT!!!   

However, there is a clear difference in telling an o line man down, on, backer as opposed to ---if your covered stretch if you are uncovered combo with the ot to the lb.........  different------It is clearly different in that when you watch the tape you can clearly see if a team is zone blocking......

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

  • Gold
  • Posts: 4611
  • Total likes: 73
  • Read Only Account. Please no PM's or Emails
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Undecided
  • Offense: Undecided
  • Title: Retired
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2010, 11:26:32 AM »
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24264
  • Total likes: 2541
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 8 & Under
  • Defense: 3-5-3
  • Offense: Wing T
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2010, 11:56:17 AM »
I understand zone has rules..... I think you know what I mean by zone blocking vs. rule blocking.......I dont like zone because I like zero splits and double teams..... I see no reason to zone block....... (that is my style though)  I prefer to ask the questions and read the info though lol...

Nick

My mistake...Im getting tired of coaches that claim zone is nothing more than grab and hold rules so I wanted to get your opinion.

I have run zone now at the smurf level and the semi pro level for about 5 years...good results with OZ...mixed results with IZ but I think Coach Mountjoy has helped me troubleshoot that problem....

Anyway...I cannot remember the last holding call against one of our linemen. Its been years.

I see absolutley no difference in teaching covered / uncovered as compared to GOD for example,  except for one biggie...time involved.

Both have "what if" sets of pre snap rules to follow therefore they are exactaly the same...just different.

Thats what confused me about the title of this thread...I thought all blocking was rules blocking to include the just hit somebody scheme.

Coach Mike

Coach Mike
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline coachnick

  • Silver
  • Posts: 1921
  • Total likes: 17
  • offense dw defense gambler
  • Coaching: High School
  • Offense: Multiple
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2010, 12:03:29 PM »
I spent two years as o coordinator of our freshman team... I had total control of the offense......  The first year we ran the double wing....no splits etc... the second year we had a new head coach and he brought in the Pro I (much to my sadness I couldnt run the dw)......however, he and I talked and i told him i wanted to run the I wing, with no splits, double tights, and have his spreads sets in....He agreed and there it was..........I like no splits and calande's good god blocking....I beleive in it totally and I beleive it gives me the best chance for success....


However,  if i were an O coordinator and I was running the pro I (which I dont think could happen because I would be running the dw----but anyway) with 1 -2 foot splits then I would probably LOOK AT zone blocking........

p.s. the head coach liked my coaching and made me his db/rb coach this year for varsity...........cant wait i've been working hard.......

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

  • Gold
  • Posts: 4611
  • Total likes: 73
  • Read Only Account. Please no PM's or Emails
  • Coaching: High School
  • Defense: Undecided
  • Offense: Undecided
  • Title: Retired
Re: zone blocking vs rule blocking
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2010, 12:11:40 PM »
Nick

My mistake...Im getting tired of coaches that claim zone is nothing more than grab and hold rules so I wanted to get your opinion.

I have run zone now at the smurf level and the semi pro level for about 5 years...good results with OZ...mixed results with IZ but I think Coach Mountjoy has helped me troubleshoot that problem....

Anyway...I cannot remember the last holding call against one of our linemen. Its been years.

I see absolutley no difference in teaching covered / uncovered as compared to GOD for example,  except for one biggie...time involved.

Both have "what if" sets of pre snap rules to follow therefore they are exactaly the same...just different.

Thats what confused me about the title of this thread...I thought all blocking was rules blocking to include the just hit somebody scheme.

Coach Mike

Coach Mike

Mike - I agree.  Anybody that thinks zone is "grab & hold" has never had two O-Linermen cock their elbows back on the first step, &  PUNCH them in the ribs or chest with FOUR FISTS on the second step.  If they DID - they would "crap their pants"!  That's TODAY'S football.
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com