Author Topic: Monuments  (Read 38856 times)

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Re: Monuments
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2011, 05:45:32 AM »
let me just say, that you still cant teach your backs or your qb to read backers......which is how we got into the defense I put up............
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Online mahonz

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Re: Monuments
« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2011, 10:29:49 AM »
let me just say, that you still cant teach your backs or your qb to read backers......which is how we got into the defense I put up............

My discussions on reading backers actually started at the semi pro level with a FB who had tons of D1 playing experience. He was getting muddy reads for his assingments and our TB's were hesitant.

We were a zone team and only practiced one day a week and were facing a bunch of 30 fronts….namely the 35 which our team also ran.  So making everything more simple was always the idea.  We discussed how muddy the reads were for him and he actually made the suggestion for his reads and the TB's reads so we used that season as the experiment. Seems to work well so I adapted this to the smurf level. So far so good.

I have no idea why you are stuck in the mud on this. If it doesn’t fit your way of teaching….cool. Move on. No biggie. Who cares.  It has worked very well with children....that is all I personally care about.
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Re: Monuments
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2011, 10:36:39 AM »
My discussions on reading backers actually started at the semi pro level with a FB who had tons of D1 playing experience. He was getting muddy reads for his assingments and our TB's were hesitant.

We were a zone team and only practiced one day a week and were facing a bunch of 30 fronts….namely the 35 which our team also ran.  So making everything more simple was always the idea.  We discussed how muddy the reads were for him and he actually made the suggestion for his reads and the TB's reads so we used that season as the experiment. Seems to work well so I adapted this to the smurf level. So far so good.

I have no idea why you are stuck in the mud on this. If it doesn’t fit your way of teaching….cool. Move on. No biggie. Who cares.  It has worked very well with children....that is all I personally care about.
I am not stuck in the mud.....but just to make it real clear for you, ITS UNSOUND.....yes I said it. The reads taught correctly are bloody easy. You somehow made it brain surgery.......NOT THE NFL or NCAA or HS COACHES....just the likes of you.
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Re: Monuments
« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2011, 10:49:32 AM »
I am not stuck in the mud.....but just to make it real clear for you, ITS UNSOUND.....yes I said it. The reads taught correctly are bloody easy. You somehow made it brain surgery.......NOT THE NFL or NCAA or HS COACHES....just the likes of you.

 :D

Z

Yer too funny.

Have you ever tried it....on grass....live....with actaul players. I have tried both and came to my own conclusions. No biggie. If the line takes care of their business it is very sound. If the line does not....then everything is a disaster.  :'(  I am serioulsy considering using the counting method you spoke about next time I teach zone...which wont be for a few years....but Im still completley open to the idea. You make sense there but it worries me but thats OK....im game.

Next time you are teaching your backs zone...experiment a little with this. Then we can discuss.   ;)

You knuclehead.  :)
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Re: Monuments
« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2011, 11:43:21 AM »
:D

Z

Yer too funny.

Have you ever tried it....on grass....live....with actaul players. I have tried both and came to my own conclusions. No biggie. If the line takes care of their business it is very sound. If the line does not....then everything is a disaster.  :'(  I am serioulsy considering using the counting method you spoke about next time I teach zone...which wont be for a few years....but Im still completley open to the idea. You make sense there but it worries me but thats OK....im game.

Next time you are teaching your backs zone...experiment a little with this. Then we can discuss.   ;)

You knuclehead.  :)
first unsound fb was good for the kids, then it was because you couldnt coach the line? yes we have tried it, and we tried to turn into a sweep, find the right back, blah blah, blah it was a miserable failure.... on top of not listening to people who knew, we tried to mix it with inside veer, our version of the wing t, shotgun but....not without a descenting voice. we are now 2-7.........

coach,
can you do me a drawing of a 4-3 defense? like the one you did of my drawing?
4-3 defined as both guard  and tackles  and the and his imaginary counterpart other side covered. the mike is over the center sam and will over the  real and imaginary te?  then tell me who zero is? and 1,2, and 3 to each side please?
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Offline seeindouble

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Re: Monuments
« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2011, 11:43:51 AM »
No, what ZZ doesn't understand is the word PROPORTION  at the youth level.
For example, in my league, I wouldn't even bother to have the RB read ANYTHING, because from my observations, THE DEFENDERS DON'T READ ANYTHING. So why bother reading something that's NOT READING YOU. That's coaching in PROPORTION to what you see. Now do you get it ZZ...
 

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Re: Monuments
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2011, 11:45:04 AM »
No, what ZZ doesn't understand is the word PROPORTION  at the youth level.
For example, in my league, I wouldn't even bother to have the RB read ANYTHING, because from my observations, THE DEFENDERS DON'T READ ANYTHING. So why bother reading something that's NOT READING YOU. That's coaching in PROPORTION to what you see. Now do you get it ZZ...
you wouldnt know what to teach to read even if you did want them to read something........
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Offline seeindouble

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Re: Monuments
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2011, 11:54:22 AM »
you wouldnt know what to teach to read even if you did want them to read something........

 ;D You know, I was thinking about putting you on ignore, BUT WHY!?, your posts are comic relief, you're SOOOOO FUNNY!

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Re: Monuments
« Reply #68 on: November 07, 2011, 12:07:41 PM »
;D You know, I was thinking about putting you on ignore, BUT WHY!?, your posts are comic relief, you're SOOOOO FUNNY!
I had a dream....there is hope......unfortunately for you, that is all it is.
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Re: Monuments
« Reply #69 on: November 07, 2011, 12:17:39 PM »
first unsound fb was good for the kids, then it was because you couldnt coach the line? yes we have tried it, and we tried to turn into a sweep, find the right back, blah blah, blah it was a miserable failure.... on top of not listening to people who knew, we tried to mix it with inside veer, our version of the wing t, shotgun but....not without a descenting voice. we are now 2-7.........

coach,
can you do me a drawing of a 4-3 defense? like the one you did of my drawing?
4-3 defined as both guard  and tackles  and the and his imaginary counterpart other side covered. the mike is over the center sam and will over the  real and imaginary te?  then tell me who zero is? and 1,2, and 3 to each side please?

Z

No need to get all fluffed up…..its all part of the dumbing down process that’s all. I dont know why you get so combatitive at times.

Some say teaching youths any zone stuff is unsound….others say passing is unsound….others say option is unsound.

That’s ok …its all good. We are only here to share our discoveries. I don’t trust bucket stepping so I teach slide steps, which requires better footwork. At the youth level this is a scary move but I work diligently at it. I also do not teach 4 hands 4 eyes but rather bump the hips as the key. I have also gone round and round on cutting the backside. First we started out cutting to the ground….then cut and scramble….now it will be all sifting. Cut and scramble is one of the hardest thing for a linemen to execute….they can cut but they cant scramble. :'( I dont know what you mean about struggling with teaching the line but yes I do experiement a little bit there.

Then I got all involved in what the back should read after I realized we were leaving a ton of yards on the field. I followed the rules and taught them to read the DL. Now the backs were hesitant. So thankfully I was coaching the semi pros at the time. Those guys have so much experience I used them as guinea pigs for my youth ideas…and they happily got involved and gave me ideas. What they taught me about speed sweeping I would have never learned on any tape or in any book.

While trying to dumb this down for children, I wasn’t thinking about Gibbs when going over reading linebackers…I was vetting out with experienced adults that actually had to execute the plan. Why wouldn’t I listen to them? You would have too.

Its football….its all the same just different. I don’t know whats going on with your team right now but maybe the staff has taken experimenting a little to far….I don’t know. I experiment in baby steps. 

Others ask so I give my thoughts...from experience. I think I qualify to do so without your very short and quirky stabs at things. I certianly listen to Coaches like you and Rich and Matt....all Coaches in the trenches teaching zone blocking on grass with live players. Yet I still dont know why its unsound to read Lb'rs because you have not explained it...at all. Something about gaps and blabbering about turning a play into sweeps. So I'll ask again....Why would reading the DE, for example make any difference at all in your example? They play still bounces.

I’d have to look up my notes on counting….then I will draft up a drawing.
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Re: Monuments
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2011, 01:38:31 PM »
draw it up, and tell me what you get.

the only differences we have is in how we see the top levels of play. You think they have overly complicated, I think it relatively simple.
I am ok with the differences and the back and forth.......
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Re: Monuments
« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2011, 01:55:46 PM »
draw it up, and tell me what you get.

the only differences we have is in how we see the top levels of play. You think they have overly complicated, I think it relatively simple.
I am ok with the differences and the back and forth.......

...me too...its how I learn.  ;)
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Re: Monuments
« Reply #72 on: November 08, 2011, 07:27:56 AM »
I don’t trust bucket stepping so I teach slide steps, which requires better footwork. At the youth level this is a scary move but I work diligently at it. I also do not teach 4 hands 4 eyes but rather bump the hips as the key.

Mike,

Can you explain this further please. 

Thanks

Matt
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Re: Monuments
« Reply #73 on: November 08, 2011, 11:47:40 AM »
Mike,

Can you explain this further please. 

Thanks

Matt


Matt

Slide stepping is in lieu of bucket stepping. It requires larger horizontal splits and very fast feet. 

Rather than the uncovered linemen bucketing with his play side foot…. lose ground to gain ground….we slide the play side foot right down the LOS and click the next lineman’s inside foot. This keeps his shoulders square to the LOS and keeps him in a better base if the defender that is covering attacks immediately to the uncovered lineman. His backside foot …second step….also slides directly down the LOS the same distance as the first step. This must happen very fast while he loads his arms for the punch. He must also maintain an excellent run demeanor…so he squats.

This puts him slightly behind his buddy that is covered and in an excellent position to “bump” his buddy off the defender and to the second level. Because of the T step technique that the covered lineman is executing….the defenders shoulders are being slightly turned outwards and lifted upwards with a foot in his crotch. He quickly becomes neutralized right as the uncovered lineman attacks into the hip of the covered lineman. So now the uncovered lineman literally bumps the covered lineman off the block. This requires lots of practice.

Until that happens the covered lineman stays on the defender. No 4 hands 4 eyes. Its up to the uncovered lineman to bump so there is no assuming…which I have found the young kids will do a lot of amazingly.

If the defender immediately attacks the uncovered lineman then the T-step method being a more vertical move will always chip that defenders outside shoulder with his inside hand on his way to the second level helping the uncovered lineman a little bit. All we ask is that he turns the defenders shoulders outwards slightly so that the uncovered lineman has a better opportunity to get that leverage.

If the defender attacks away then the uncovered lineman is in a excellent relationship to very quickly roll back into the second level. This is the biggie. I ran test drills.....bucket step and roll back into the second level...slide step and roll back into the second level. Slide and roll was twice as fast because bucket stepping requires a long second attack step and points the uncovered lineman outward. Slide stepping he is ready to uncoil and attack up field right away.

The TE will always T step to the OT unless he is tagged to ride an edge defender up field. So the TE is running the covered rules but to his inside regardless. What we have discovered is this will put him on an OLB 75% of the time plus now all of his pass routes to include any out type routes…he will T-step to the inside and then release….so he shows run 100% of the time.

Slide stepping is also an absolute perfect marriage to slide protection. All linemen run their footwork and punch as if they were all uncovered. If you hit air….don’t climb and never chase. Buzz the feet.  It’s an impenetrable wall that slides right or left one yard…basically…. while a back picks up the backside. Its also why I always say…never attempt to slide protect around a vacating TE. The edge defender to the TE side will get a free shot at the QB.

Hope this helps.   
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Re: Monuments
« Reply #74 on: November 08, 2011, 12:06:41 PM »
Matt

Attached are some old slides I put together for OZ.  They need to be updated as far as stressing a violent and aggressive punch. All lineman must now wear padded fingerless gloves with
the exception of the Center. If he can snap with gloves great….if he cant that’s ok too.

One coaching point to teaching a violent punch is to play under control. We have been flagged probably 3 or 4 times over the years for whiffing and head slapping a defender. That is a 15 yard penalty and gets the refs a bit riled up because it is deemed dirty…which it is. Tough to explain your way out of a head slap.  :(
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