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Author Topic: 8-2-1 KO Return  (Read 6013 times)

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Offline Ronin

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8-2-1 KO Return
« on: December 04, 2014, 04:03:01 PM »
Coaches,

I used the 8-2-1 this year.  Partially because our biggest threat onside kicks every single time, but also because I like what is said here:  http://footballislifeblog.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-8-2-1-kickoff-return.html

Thoughts?

Offline BigD

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2016, 10:45:46 PM »
I know this is a super old post but how did this work out for you?

Offline Ronin

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2016, 08:45:39 AM »
I still like it.  One adjustment I made was to move the front line back 2.5 yards to give a little cushion from the onside kicks that were line drive kicks straight at a player.  This gave a little more time to adjust.  It also gave an extra step or two for the play to develop before engaging blocks.  Funny thing... there were a couple games where the refs tried to move my front line up to the line and I had to explain that they are exactly where I want them, please leave them alone.

Offline BigD

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2016, 09:05:02 AM »
Yeah I have had refs move them up on me also, not sure why they do that.  How did it work for you with the actual returns?

Offline Ronin

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2016, 09:15:39 AM »
Almost every team we played were onside kick teams.  In fact, I think we only had three games where the ball was not an onside kick.  But the few that did kick deep... well, we saw good returns.  It took work, though.  Had one of the three returners decide he wanted to fall on the ball instead of pick it up and run.  Had to fix that.  Had another kid that early in the season wanted to follow his instincts and run to the sideline, even if the call was middle return.  But, when the returner followed what was taught it was off to the races with a TD. 

Offline CoachSugg

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2016, 09:28:24 AM »
I use a 5-4-2.  (almost a 9-2)

5 guys on the front line are all aligned with their chest toward the opposite sideline, to help prevent ricochets.  They are aligned center, hashes, and numbers.  They're job is to not get hit with the ball, cover up anything on the ground, block if it goes past you.  DO NOT try and catch it.

The 4 are in the gaps of the front 5 at 5 yards back.  This gives the outside guys a good angle for a good onside kick.  If they catch it, they can run with it.  If it is on the ground, they have to cover it up, no scooping.  If it goes past them then block.

The 2 are my obvious returners. They can catch it, and they have one chance to scoop it off the ground.  If they miss the first scoop, they must cover it up.  On a catch, they go opposite of their side, as to gain a lead blocker.  If they scoop it, then get to their sideline.

I preach, and preach, that the sole purpose of the KOR team is to ensure possession of the ball.  Minimize risk of turnover.
Kent Sugg
Bridge Creek, OK

Offline BigD

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2016, 09:55:55 AM »
I preach, and preach, that the sole purpose of the KOR team is to ensure possession of the ball.  Minimize risk of turnover.

We use a 6-4-2 and wall return it. Quick install, don't spend much time on it.

I preach it almost exactly like you do, I'm happy as long as we keep possession but I know we are shorting ourselves by not having better returns.  We usually get one or two return tds a season with a few other nice returns where the returner gets caught from behind.  We haven't seen a lot of kickoffs the last couple of years though since we prioritized the defense instead of the offense.



 

Offline CoachSugg

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2016, 10:00:08 AM »
We use a 6-4-2

I'd definitely think you'd have a great advantage in the return game playing 12 on 11. 
 ;)
Kent Sugg
Bridge Creek, OK

Offline Ronin

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2016, 10:17:04 AM »
wall return it

I've considered this.  This is what we did when I was a kid.  Seems like a great advantage in youth ball.  But again... only if it is not an onside kick, which we see very little of.

Offline Ronin

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2016, 10:25:43 AM »
The thing I like about the 8-2-1 on the link posted above is not necessarily the formation, but their concept of blocking.  That blocking percentages are directly related to bigger returns.  Duh, right?  But it seems like the concept from the link simplifies things for the kids. 

Basically, instead of going backwards at the kick like a typical return and potentially muddying up the 'who blocks whom' rules, the blockers head straight forward and hit their man. 

Offline BigD

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2016, 11:01:41 AM »
I'd definitely think you'd have a great advantage in the return game playing 12 on 11. 
 ;)

Lmao hit the wrong key  :P 6-3-2

Offline Ronin

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2016, 11:07:18 AM »
Lmao hit the wrong key  :P 6-3-2

I thought maybe you were Canadian. 

Offline BigD

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2016, 11:26:27 AM »
I thought maybe you were Canadian.

I wish I was in Canada...LOVE the fishing up there, some huge walleyes!

It's probably not a wall return like you were thinking, more like a wedge type wall and pick up who enters your area.  Really simple, get good returns at times and have only not covered 2 onside kicks in 5 seasons so I keep using it but I know it could be better.

We see a lot of 12 to 25 yard kicks with some onside mixed in, surprised we don't see more onside kicks. 

Not even sure where I came across it at this point....   https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Et87mJrRsFQR11lToSzQg0GfWNwRlUoyOgvXjXWM6Y/edit?usp=sharing

Offline BigD

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2016, 11:28:42 AM »
The thing I like about the 8-2-1 on the link posted above is not necessarily the formation, but their concept of blocking.  That blocking percentages are directly related to bigger returns.  Duh, right?  But it seems like the concept from the link simplifies things for the kids. 

Basically, instead of going backwards at the kick like a typical return and potentially muddying up the 'who blocks whom' rules, the blockers head straight forward and hit their man.


What is the key on going straight ahead like that and going to get your man?  I've seen other teams do it that way but the kick off guys seem to just run right by them.

Offline spidermac

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Re: 8-2-1 KO Return
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2016, 11:42:07 AM »
We use it and love it (8-2-1), did not lose an Onside kick last season, we also move the front line back, about a yard, so they won't try and pick the ball up before it goes 10 yards...blocking needs to get better when the bad guys kick it away, but that is hard to work on in practice, as we only have 17 kids, and the ones not on the kick return are generally offensive lineman, so they don't move that well...
None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.