Author Topic: Morality of onside kicks  (Read 16036 times)

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Offline bigshel

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2012, 08:37:43 PM »
If you onsides everytime and then kick deep when you are up big what other things do you do to not rub it in? take a knee, stop tackling, stop blocking, run backwards for a loss? Sorry, but if it is what you do then I think it is a disservice to your team and a slap in the face to your opponent to change because you are winning. why not let your stud run the ball for them.

Most of us throw in our 2nd and 3rd string players when we are up big. that makes sense to me and if you fret over the onsides have a back up kick off team that comes in when you are up big and let them onsides. now you are working on making them better and not rubbing it the other teams face. you are still doing what you do.

Chris

We punt on first down and put our subs in on defense.  I know...I said the "P" word.   :o

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2012, 08:45:37 PM »
We punt when we are up big. I don't care if stuff goes awry then.

Offline davecisar

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2012, 08:19:40 AM »
Kicking deep is much less backing off then putting in back ups. Going on your statement you should keep your starters in. I believe Pop Warner rule states you cannot onsides in mercy rule. PW has a bunch of crazy mercy rule variations. If we did not change how we coached I promise you last year we would of beat teams by over 100 points. Not kidding or exaggerating. Would that make me a jerk. Nope, it would make me a F&*#&!^ A$(&%$!!! I would be ashamed of myself if I ever ran the score up on a bunch of little kids.


Agree 100%
Same goes for us

We compete
We teach life lessons, including compassion
That first team to 100 BS has no place in youth football- unless Im selfishly trying to pad my stats against a hapless team- which I think is awful

When I lived in Texas from 1980-1986 I remember everyone still referring to Houston as a bush league team for scoring 49 pts in the 4th quarter and going hurry up to beat Tulsa 100-7 to avenge losing the previous year when ranked #10- all just to get some publicity- because no one would go to their games- commuter school
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/article.aspx?articleID=20080702_94_B1_hWhodo880472

UHs leading rusher had 282 yards and played into the early part of the 4th quarter- UH scored on a pass to get to 93 pts

UH was considered to be a joke- even 22 years later for that- stink sticks

At A&M= UH was referred to as "Cougar High" and there was even a cheer or song everyone sang about Cougar High when A&M played UH
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 08:38:23 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2012, 08:22:09 AM »
Compassion and empathy are 2 life lessons youth coaches often forget. They may be the most important, especially today.

Offline Test Account

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2012, 08:26:58 AM »
Compassion and empathy are 2 life lessons youth coaches often forget. They may be the most important, especially today.
empathy and compassion are one set, Wack is another entirely.
I have 2 kids. I have empathy and campassion, but I will not remove my foot from their throat so to speak. Their is right and wrong, winning and losing. competing and showing up. Its black and white. Not that you guys didnt already know that about me. ;)
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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2012, 08:52:55 AM »
We play all out until the mercy rule starts. At that point in Pop Warner the game is not winnable by the other team(by rule). What is the point after that?

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2012, 08:59:29 AM »
We play all out until the mercy rule starts. At that point in Pop Warner the game is not winnable by the other team(by rule). What is the point after that?
do you slack off when you give two weeks notice?  Do you stop studying this game after you win the championship or just have a miserable season? When the mercy kicks is when all the lessons are learned. Its where finishing is learned on both sides. If you believe you are teaching life lessons then you cannot (not anybody personally or you PSL) believe that its alright to stop.These lessons, as hard as they might be, are GOOD for kids. It hurts them, But its temporary. It is by no means crippling. If all we want from this is for kids to feel good about themselves? then stop keeping score, make sure everybody get equal playing time, and kids are never wrong....
Oh wait then there is no need for adults. ;)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 09:05:43 AM by tebowthud »
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Offline Prodigy

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2012, 09:02:25 AM »
Unless you're going to extraordinary lengths to run up the score, you're going to embarrass those who are embarrassable (a lot of children, and some adults, effectively aren't) regardless.  Either you embarrass them by overwhelming them on the scoreboard, or you embarrass them by going easy on them.  Except for the youngest of them (who are probably mostly unembarrassable anyway), you're not going to fool them into not being embarrassed.  Of course you substitute liberally because you want to give opp'ties to more players, but the other team's kids know they're not playing vs. your 1st string.

I don't know if I believe that.  There is a well known coach on this forum who played a post-season game against a "lesser" opponent and purposely ran "special plays" to allow the opponent to gain yardage and make TD's.  As far as I know, he didn't tell the other team he was going easy on them and they truly thought they had found a chink in the armor.

I've played in games before where we were obviously out-matched and despite having no hope of winning we still deseperately tried to score and stop the other team from steam-rolling us.  A 28-7 loss is much better than a 28-0 loss.
If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2012, 10:19:08 AM »
Our league had to revise its tie breaker system a few years ago for the playoffs. Our league is a large one so every age group in every division goes thru a few tiebreakers each season for spme of the teams.

Points For was actually the third tie breaker so what do you think that meant. ::)

They changed it to Points Against.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline seeindouble

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2012, 10:45:21 AM »
I just don't see how somebody can say, they don't kick to the other teams best player in one breath, and then turn around and say that the other team's coaching sucks in another breath. The two just don't jibe to me. You mean to tell me, that all these coaches that suck, all have this inherent ability to coach STs?

And for the coaches that kick all the time, what about these MPP rules? How is the other coach gonna get his MPRs, if you're OSKing all the time, especially if you have roster sizes of 25-30+? 

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2012, 11:42:37 AM »
TT
   Pop Warner dictates that we lay off. They have rules installed that don't allow you to do things like pass or run outside the tackles. I do like the running clock. I don't disagree with your point. Kids need to learn that sometimes in life you get your teeth smashed in but I don't know that we should be the ones smashing them in or at what age they should become fully aware of that fact. Getting beat soundly is different than being destroyed and humiliated. I have seen kids get turned of of sports because their coaches were too incompetent to be able to not get destroyed every game.
As far as mpr, in Pop Warner special teams do not count towards the play count.

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2012, 11:45:33 AM »
TT
   Pop Warner dictates that we lay off. They have rules installed that don't allow you to do things like pass or run outside the tackles. I do like the running clock. I don't disagree with your point. Kids need to learn that sometimes in life you get your teeth smashed in but I don't know that we should be the ones smashing them in or at what age they should become fully aware of that fact. Getting beat soundly is different than being destroyed and humiliated. I have seen kids get turned of of sports because their coaches were too incompetent to be able to not get destroyed every game.
As far as mpr, in Pop Warner special teams do not count towards the play count.
At some point in their life its going to happen, and sooner the better in my opinion. They can deal with it, they do deal with it, often times better than their coaches. But kids strangely enough have more to teach adults than most adults are open to learning.
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Online Bob Goodman

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2012, 11:56:18 AM »
I just don't see how somebody can say, they don't kick to the other teams best player in one breath, and then turn around and say that the other team's coaching sucks in another breath. The two just don't jibe to me. You mean to tell me, that all these coaches that suck, all have this inherent ability to coach STs?
With poorly coached teams -- and in youth football often even with avg. coaching, and sometimes even with better-than-avg. -- the best play is the broken play, and the way to serve up a broken play is to kick to the speedy kid in plenty of space.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2012, 11:58:00 AM »
I agree with you 100% about kids having stuff to teach us. They also often do deal with losses better than coaches, especially the younger kids.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Morality of onside kicks
« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2012, 12:00:05 PM »
With poorly coached teams -- and in youth football often even with avg. coaching, and sometimes even with better-than-avg. -- the best play is the broken play, and the way to serve up a broken play is to kick to the speedy kid in plenty of space.
The dreaded broken play. We had a team in our conference last year that wen t like 7-3 and I am pretty sure every td was on a broken play or sweep. Tons of talent but no coaching.