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Author Topic: Beast - Platinum Edition  (Read 3120 times)

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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2018, 12:50:31 AM »
Dave,

When you're right, you're right. Sh*t canned the buck lateral tonight.

ugh.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2018, 12:33:24 AM »
As promised. All 13 plays from "Cowboy", our unbalanced side saddle offense. Good, bad and ugly, including a pick 6.

Couple of considerations:

Got rid of Buck Lateral. Dave Cisar was 100% right. Not worth the investment.
Got rid of our 3 exchange counter/reverse. Too easy to blow up. Mega splits makes it's living by getting out of the backfield quickly.
Got rid of Super (5 to one side snapper) and Mega (6 to one side of snapper). X receiver might be able to block D-linemen at the younger levels, but not at 8th grade.
Only installed 6 running and 2 pass plays.
Only installed "Cowboy Right". Haven't touched the left side yet.
This defense was freaking awful. They had a couple of players, but poor alignment, poor assignment and poor player development. Anything would have worked against them.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zlP4yZZzt_e_D2RJyjOjhfsWc4A7p1Nz
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2018, 08:22:27 PM »
As promised. All 13 plays from "Cowboy", our unbalanced side saddle offense. Good, bad and ugly, including a pick 6.

Couple of considerations:

Got rid of Buck Lateral. Dave Cisar was 100% right. Not worth the investment.
Got rid of our 3 exchange counter/reverse. Too easy to blow up. Mega splits makes it's living by getting out of the backfield quickly.
Got rid of Super (5 to one side snapper) and Mega (6 to one side of snapper). X receiver might be able to block D-linemen at the younger levels, but not at 8th grade.
Only installed 6 running and 2 pass plays.
Only installed "Cowboy Right". Haven't touched the left side yet.
This defense was freaking awful. They had a couple of players, but poor alignment, poor assignment and poor player development. Anything would have worked against them.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zlP4yZZzt_e_D2RJyjOjhfsWc4A7p1Nz


So 4 days ago Mike M says this:" Reply #28 on: April 12, 2018, 05:19:02 PM
Quote
Im liking this Buck lateral thing just to see. With a group of talented 8th Graders....why not.

With Smurfs...yah probably not a great idea. "

Good to see you telling the truth- it doesnt work
Even with a select team of 8th graders
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Online mahonz

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2018, 09:11:15 PM »
So 4 days ago Mike M says this:" Reply #28 on: April 12, 2018, 05:19:02 PM
Quote
Im liking this Buck lateral thing just to see. With a group of talented 8th Graders....why not.

With Smurfs...yah probably not a great idea. "


I think after this week we will be close. Or not... and everything goes to the shredder. :P

Good to see you telling the truth- it doesnt work
Even with a select team of 8th graders

I finished the quote for you.  ;)
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2018, 09:29:20 AM »
I watched a ton of film of HS teams running UBSW with a buck lateral series. The number of times they actually ran buck lateral was very low. Maybe once per game on average. They ran 16 with the fake buck lateral a lot. One thing we did very differently was to run it to the short side. The HS teams ran it to the long side.

Nonetheless, I guess I was expecting defenders to collapse from the sheer awesomeness of the play. Didn't happen.

At least we laid the foundation for the flapjack pass.
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2018, 03:33:46 PM »
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zlP4yZZzt_e_D2RJyjOjhfsWc4A7p1Nz
Interesting use of the sidesaddle feature.  A little awkward when your QB's a R handed passer & is lined up with the R hand upfield (i.e. facing L) when he has to drop back to pass.  The passer gets out a little faster than a forward-facing one when he's facing the sideline of his passing hand; when it's the other way around, as here, he has to do a turn.

The toss to the FB/TB was interesting too, in that it shows the snapper doesn't have to look between his legs to lead him, when the QB can toss to him.

Looks like motioning the WB across helped hide who was getting the snap, as I'd expected.  It'd be more deceptive if there were twins back there who could get it, but if you're going to spread receivers around, you can't afford to keep another potential one back there.

I wouldn't've expected the reverses & wide runs to be so effective w the mega splits.  On the last play, the run around R end, from my perspective it looked like the DE had the runner dead to rights, but didn't have the smaller #33 shed after all.  I'm still not so good seeing things from the coach's sideline perspective.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2018, 03:49:54 PM »
I promised good, bad and ugly. Well, here's fugly. Last play of the game on their 4 yard line. First time running this against live bodies:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1y79Z_BW1S493yDZqOVwJsLRSZFAsL1d2

Gross.
The way I see it, if your inside BB is in (or close to) a position where he could've taken the snap, there isn't much point to running buck lateral anyway.  It's doing an extra ball exchange for no good reason that I can see.

That's probably why Bruce Eien has a series he calls "buck lateral", but is not one, because there's no buck: the ball's snapped to the inside blocking back in what most of us would call a beast formation, and then the play continues from there as if he'd gotten it from a bucking FB.

That said, in 2000 the NY Sharks had a double wing package where they did have a buck-pass play, the QB being handed the ball by the FB, even though the QB took the snap on some plays.  Well, it was fun to watch, anyway.  That's what I've said about buck-lateral series: that I love watching it, but don't think I'd have the nerve to try coaching it, at least not with kids...except for the lulz.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2018, 04:57:06 PM »
Interesting use of the sidesaddle feature.  A little awkward when your QB's a R handed passer & is lined up with the R hand upfield (i.e. facing L) when he has to drop back to pass.  The passer gets out a little faster than a forward-facing one when he's facing the sideline of his passing hand; when it's the other way around, as here, he has to do a turn.

Passing out of sidesaddle is supposed to be 100% roll out. Our defense was kicking our ass in practice all week on rollouts, so we shortened it. On the pick 6, he was supposed to fake the handoff, reverse to offensive right, plant his foot and throw. This QB is like that. He gets fired up and forgets his footwork/fakes, etc.

Quote
The toss to the FB/TB was interesting too, in that it shows the snapper doesn't have to look between his legs to lead him, when the QB can toss to him.

This was Mahonz' idea entirely. I saw the immediate benefit. It's our version of rocket sweep.

Quote
I wouldn't've expected the reverses & wide runs to be so effective w the mega splits.  On the last play, the run around R end, from my perspective it looked like the DE had the runner dead to rights, but didn't have the smaller #33 shed after all.  I'm still not so good seeing things from the coach's sideline perspective.

I have a hard time explaining that we never really "sweep". If we are running on the boundary side and the ball is on the hash, our TE isn't far from the sideline. If we are running to the wide side, the back has a very long way to go to flank the defense. Many things can go wrong during that long trip. So we put the force defender (any defender for that matter) in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If you really want to contain, fine. We'll pop inside.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 05:03:39 PM by gumby_in_co »
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2018, 05:09:54 PM »
That's what I've said about buck-lateral series: that I love watching it, but don't think I'd have the nerve to try coaching it, at least not with kids...except for the lulz.

The lulz are vastly overrated, my friend.  :D

For the record, side saddle was your idea as far as I know and it is a MOTHER to defend.
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2018, 06:17:37 PM »
For the record, side saddle was your idea as far as I know and it is a MOTHER to defend.
I'm glad to know that.  Now if I could just get someone to let me install it again.

Online CoachDP

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2018, 01:20:47 PM »
it is a MOTHER to defend.

How so?

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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2018, 04:25:26 PM »
How so?

--Dave

* Kickout angles comparable to DW FB/SW BB
* Backside block from the same
* Extreme overload from Beast
* Immediate wedge threat
* Immediate toss sweep threat
* Deception of the Spinner series and DW counters
* Added deception of a snap to either the side saddle back or the TB
* Potential for 4 man mesh

Play action passing sucked, but that may have been our QB.
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Offline Coach E

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Re: Beast - Platinum Edition
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2018, 12:38:42 PM »
So, I'm installing Beast this year due to...well, it's a story for another thread. Anyway, I was looking to see what I could outside of our 5 little plays and Voila! I find this thread. We'll see how it goes.
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