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Author Topic: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?  (Read 301 times)

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Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2017, 01:22:47 PM »
I honestly do not have faith in our BOD to provide necessary oversight which is one of the reasons I am considering this.  I am not asking the player to control their parent with this. 

The parent attitude is I am only concerned about my kid, I don't give a damn about the team, my baby should be the star... so now if they know their baby, that they would do anything for, will have to sit if they act a certain way, the hope is they will not do it then.  If they would do anything... why not make the thing they be acting like a decent human being.

I would suggest that you go to your BOD and get their buy-in on whatever you do.  Even if they are not going to help enforce things, they will at least be (at first) on your side.  We allow our coaches to set their own rules that we approve of in advance (as a Board).  We don't let coaches set arbitrary rules that can get people in trouble (Board, Coaches, etc.) and it is usually a rubber stamp sort of thing, but our coaches know that we have their back because we agreed to those rules in advance.

Set your behavior rules at the beginning and enforce them.  I would just not punish kids for what their parents do.  I would focus on holding people appropriately accountable for their own actions. 

Also, if you have a kid (or kids) whose parents you KNOW will have trouble, then you may want to persuade them to go elsewhere before the season.  Why look for conflict mid-season?

ETA:  Just saw the comment about the parent being on the Board.  If that is what you have for a Board, you might want to go elsewhere yourself.  :D

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2017, 01:24:43 PM »
I still don't see how a kid is going to be able to control his parent, especially while he is attempting to play. 

I'm not sure it's about that. It's about getting the parent's attention and ceasing the behavior, or that's the idea at least.  I don't deal with these matters, but I don't think it's structured to reduce a kid's playing time. E.g., "You acted like a jerk all week, so Timmy loses half his plays." It's more about correcting immediate behavior. "Timmy sits until you leave", like DC suggested, or if it's bad enough, "Timmy doesn't practice until the behavior stops. Timmy doesn't play if he doesn't practice."

We punish kids for attendance and tardiness even though none of them drive. We know that life comes first and some parents simply can't get their kid to practice on time. They don't get a "pass", but we don't make a huge deal out of it. Last part of warm ups is a short lap. Before that lap, late guy holds Godzilla and watches while the rest of the team does push ups, thanking late guy for each one. Then they all take a lap with late guy holding Godzilla. No big deal to us or the players, but bigger deal to the parents.

We had an unusual situation a few seasons ago. My starting QB was habitually late to games. I mean 45 minutes late and missing warmups/pregame. So I benched him for a quarter to get Mom's attention. Didn't work. One of the coaches told him that if he wants to play, he will nag his mom until she starts leaving on time. The problem: This is a traditional Hmong family. Being 1/2 Vietnamese, I understand that children do not nag their parents or "tell" them anything. They ask very politely one time, then become invisible. This situation was complicated because they lived quite a distance away and have a large family with babies, toddlers and a special needs daughter. So I fixed the problem by picking him up on game days.
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Online mahonz

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2017, 01:25:21 PM »
Can you expound on your answer?

Dumbass parents dont know they are dumbasses. So train them not to be dumbasses by punishing their sons and his team.

Here are some examples over the years. 

We have a parent that cant leave the Refs alone....team suffers.

We have a parent that thinks concerts and b-day parties and camping trips are more important than football....team suffers. 

We have divorced parents where dad brings the kid to the game on Saturday but come Tuesday that kids gear is still in dads truck...team suffers.

We have a Mom that cant seem to stop watching Dr Phil and is late to practice....team suffers.

We have a dad that wont stop approaching AC's about playing time...team suffers.

We have a Mom that wants to bitch at you after a game violating the 48 hour rule...team suffers.

How you make the team suffer is up too you....Godzilla....bellies....pushups....

So what begins to happen is pier pressure takes over and the perps start drilling their parents not to do dumbass. When one of the players agents gives you grief....you have a contract.

At the parent meeting they all need to realize how difficult it is to coach a team with no parent commitment. Since this is not school ball and the kids cant drive.....

In time all issues disappear with just the occasional hiccup. If a parent never falls in line....their son rides the pine. That is on them....not you.

Now on occasion you have something unique develop. Address this with the staff, player and parents. Just always be firm but fair and consistent. If you are faced with benching your starting QB for fighting on the playground....cant make exceptions.
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Offline bigshel

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2017, 01:25:33 PM »
I don't have faith in our org to really enforce it.  But I would have faith in myself to enforce things for my team :)

If your Board won't back you, and there were multiple witnesses to said bad behavior, then that's a whole other level of B.S. In our org, the Football AD sits on the Board and is the voice of the coaches. He and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of stuff, but this is something we agree on.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2017, 01:26:10 PM »
The parent attitude is I am only concerned about my kid, I don't give a damn about the team, my baby should be the star... so now if they know their baby, that they would do anything for, will have to sit if they act a certain way, the hope is they will not do it then.  If they would do anything... why not make the thing they be acting like a decent human being.

Yeah. This. ^^
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Offline SingleWingGoombah

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2017, 01:30:11 PM »
I would suggest that you go to your BOD and get their buy-in on whatever you do.  Even if they are not going to help enforce things, they will at least be (at first) on your side.  We allow our coaches to set their own rules that we approve of in advance (as a Board).  We don't let coaches set arbitrary rules that can get people in trouble (Board, Coaches, etc.) and it is usually a rubber stamp sort of thing, but our coaches know that we have their back because we agreed to those rules in advance.

Set your behavior rules at the beginning and enforce them.  I would just not punish kids for what their parents do.  I would focus on holding people appropriately accountable for their own actions. 

Also, if you have a kid (or kids) whose parents you KNOW will have trouble, then you may want to persuade them to go elsewhere before the season.  Why look for conflict mid-season?

ETA:  Just saw the comment about the parent being on the Board.  If that is what you have for a Board, you might want to go elsewhere yourself.  :D

That's solid advice.  I will definitely have a discussion with the President about my rules beforehand.

As for switching org, taking bad with good, its by far the best option still for me to coach and my boys to play.  But believe me, the thought has crossed my mind. 

Offline bigshel

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2017, 01:31:53 PM »
As an aside, and this is a whole other issue, this dad is a BOD member, is still a BOD member (as is the wife) and his kid is one of the ones moving up to the level I coach that could possibly be on my team.  But that aside kind of explains why I have no faith in BOD oversight.

So...just saw this part. This is a whole other pile of B.S. This is the type of B.S. that would have me leaving the org. Board members should not be exempt from any zero tolerance policy.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2017, 01:32:29 PM »
We have a parent that thinks concerts and b-day parties and camping trips are more important than football....team suffers. 

Trick or Treating.

While doing their push ups, instead of "Thank you, Ryan", they all said "Trick or Treat".
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Online mahonz

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2017, 01:35:30 PM »
That's solid advice.  I will definitely have a discussion with the President about my rules beforehand.

As for switching org, taking bad with good, its by far the best option still for me to coach and my boys to play.  But believe me, the thought has crossed my mind.

We moved to our existing Org in 2012. We had our Parent Meeting the day before practice began. One of the Board Members was present because we were a new team. He was so blown away by our Contract he insisted that other teams in our Org start doing the same.

Its the Board that deals with the real in season chit....not the coaches. A Contact helps alleviate some of the chit.
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Offline SingleWingGoombah

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2017, 01:43:01 PM »
I will definitely need to make my wife sign the rules sheet now that I will be coaching my own kid. 

Online mahonz

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2017, 01:47:40 PM »
Trick or Treating.

While doing their push ups, instead of "Thank you, Ryan", they all said "Trick or Treat".

A perfect example of what Goombah is looking for .  8)
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2017, 02:09:15 PM »
I'm not sure it's about that. It's about getting the parent's attention and ceasing the behavior, or that's the idea at least.  I don't deal with these matters, but I don't think it's structured to reduce a kid's playing time. E.g., "You acted like a jerk all week, so Timmy loses half his plays." It's more about correcting immediate behavior. "Timmy sits until you leave", like DC suggested, or if it's bad enough, "Timmy doesn't practice until the behavior stops. Timmy doesn't play if he doesn't practice."


I could see this being more effectively addressed by just having a zero tolerance option that kicks the parent out at that point.  For example:
- Instead of "Timmy sits until you leave", it is, "You leave under your own power or we have your forcibly removed and locked up."

If the parent is still a problem and causes an issue at practice, I have no problem having the parent not be at practice at all.  We have not resorted to this yet, but we have given them the possibility of telling the player and parent to no longer be part of the team.  We have mainly done this after a season with a troublesome parent. 

Offline mpwcoachsmith

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2017, 02:17:29 PM »
What about parents and lack of volunteering?  We depend on parents for working concession stands, chains, MPR monitors, etc.  During registration, we have parents check a box that states they MUST volunteer in some capacity.  However, we have a hard time enforcing this and it's always the same people helping out.  It's been in the back of mind that the way to enforce it, is to limit playing time of the kids. 

Offline davecisar

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2017, 02:23:56 PM »
I could see this being more effectively addressed by just having a zero tolerance option that kicks the parent out at that point.  For example:
- Instead of "Timmy sits until you leave", it is, "You leave under your own power or we have your forcibly removed and locked up."

If the parent is still a problem and causes an issue at practice, I have no problem having the parent not be at practice at all.  We have not resorted to this yet, but we have given them the possibility of telling the player and parent to no longer be part of the team.  We have mainly done this after a season with a troublesome parent.

The deal is this:

The parent wouldnt stop making derogatory remarks about the refs
So we took her sons pads off- had an assistant coach walk with him to the end zone and take a knee- AFTER I told him he was a great kid, we loved him and that we would take care of this so he could keep playing

She left in tears- never to return- meanwhile he put his gear back on and got to play some more football
Didnt hear a peep from anyone after that
You are in charge- not the parents
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Punish the player for the sins of the parent?
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2017, 02:46:42 PM »
My immediate response is the same as DP; I never punish the child for the acts of the parent. Then as I read through I realized there are occasions that I have.

SWG, Big Dog Daddy father of Dion Sanders, either would be gone or I would. At no point do you ever physically threaten or try to intimidate a coach.

I am lucky I haven't had parents on the sideline in over 20 years. When we did it took work to keep them behaved as it was Brooklyn.

Here's a typical Brooklyn story:

Big game both teams 9-0 playing for first place. Over 1000 people lining the field. After the game our football Commissioner comes over & hands me 600 bucks (this is 1982 so that's a lot) & tells me to go get the kids Pizza & drinks & use the rest for my team dinner. Turns out he caught a guy passing the hat who wasn't even part of the organization just a scammer. They had to chase his ass down to get the money.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh