Author Topic: Crazy FG !  (Read 1127 times)

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Offline mahonz

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Collect moments, not wins.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Crazy FG !
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 12:56:09 PM »
Pretty sure that is not legal.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Crazy FG !
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 01:16:20 PM »
Pretty sure that is not legal.

Not sure about NFHS rules.

Though the referees under the goat post understandably seemed confused, the kick was ruled good, awarding three points to TLU. Turns out, the refs were correct.

According to the NCAA rule book, “any free kick or scrimmage kick continues to be a kick until it is caught or recovered by a player or becomes dead.” Hopkins’ kick was never recovered by anyone before he kicked it back the second time.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Crazy FG !
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 03:05:33 PM »
See the explanation at the Yahoo! sports link.  The following applies in all major USAn codes:

First of all, the original kick (which continued until the ball became dead) can't score a goal because the ball subsequently touched the ground before going over the bar.

Seoond, the 2nd kick can't score a goal because it doesn't qualify as either a place or drop kick.

Third, the 2nd kick was illegal kicking of the ball, because not being either of those things, it's also not a punt.

But the opposing team doesn't have to accept the penalty to negate the score, since there's no score even w/o the penalty.  The penalty would be different in different codes.  In Fed it would be best to accept the penalty rather than take the result of the play, touchback, because the enforcement (loose ball play) of 15 yds. from the spot of the foul (behind the basic spot) is more favorable than getting the ball on the 20, because loss of down was added recently to the penalty for illegal kick.

In Canadian football, that'd be a ball dribbled (legally) into & through the opposing end zone/goal area.  No score, defending team scrimmages on their 10 yard line.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 03:16:59 PM by Bob Goodman »

Offline Wing-n-It

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Re: Crazy FG !
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 06:00:35 PM »
Ball is live Bob till it is caught by someone or it hits the uprights.
Drop kicks are still legal
the ball was kicked off the ground, the rules don't state it has to be held by someone.

If your rules were used once a kick is happened then no one would be able to recover the kick and score with it.

Yahoo sports doesn't really know that much and they are talking out their butts

Side saddle is still legal
Robert

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Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: Crazy FG !
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 09:30:21 PM »

Offline Wing-n-It

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Re: Crazy FG !
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 07:25:59 AM »
I really wished the article would have stated the rule # he talks about because I still cant find it as he explained in the NCAA rule book.

I know why its legal,............. Cause they got the 3 points  :P
Robert

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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Crazy FG !
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2017, 08:37:33 PM »
Ball is live Bob till it is caught by someone or it hits the uprights.
True.  The ball's still live, but what about the outcome of the play?
Quote
Drop kicks are still legal
True.  But that wasn't a drop kick.
Quote
the ball was kicked off the ground, the rules don't state it has to be held by someone.
True.  But it still has to be a punt, drop, or place kick -- and the 2nd kicking of the ball wasn't any of those.
Quote
If your rules were used once a kick is happened then no one would be able to recover the kick and score with it.
I don't see how that follows.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Crazy FG !
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2017, 08:41:32 PM »
I really wished the article would have stated the rule # he talks about because I still cant find it as he explained in the NCAA rule book.

I know why its legal,............. Cause they got the 3 points  :P
Look in the Definitions (Rule 2) under "Kicks".  Then look up "Scoring".  Also look up "illegally kicking the ball".

Offline Wing-n-It

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Re: Crazy FG !
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 07:32:01 AM »
Look in the Definitions (Rule 2) under "Kicks".  Then look up "Scoring".  Also look up "illegally kicking the ball".
Just give me the number of the rule that says "no kicking the ball a second time"

I don't have time to look all that up, it really doesn't change what I do in a day.

They got three points, good for them.
No sweat off my sack.
Robert

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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Crazy FG !
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2017, 12:13:34 AM »
Just give me the number of the rule that says "no kicking the ball a second time"
In 1900, as you can read in Spalding's Foot Ball Guide for that year, American football outlawed kicking a loose ball produced by any means other than dropping it from the hands.  (It was a good number of years atter that, however, before it was specified that the ball be dropped by the same player who kicks it, and even longer before it specified that it be placed by a player of the same team.)

If you want to see where that provision currently resides in Fed rules, it's 9-7-1. But to understand that, you need to read the definitions of the kicks in Rule 2 under "Kicks" (it's alphabetic, but numbering of sections may have changed since the edition I last looked at).  Kicking a loose ball (other that one dropped for that purpose) is neither a punt, drop kick, nor place kick as defined therein.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Crazy FG !
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 02:56:32 PM »
There was a game clip going around a few yrs. ago showing that not much would've had to change for the 2nd kick to have been a legal place kick.  In that one, the ball bounced back to the place kick holder, who teed it up again.  Had the holder had a knee on the ground, the ball would've been dead, but he was only crouching.  The kicker recocked and rekicked; I don't remember the outcome, but it would've been eligible to score a goal and in any event would not have been penalized.

The only discussion about that one online was among officials discussing the fine points of Fed & NCAA rules as to whether at the time the ball still could've remained in play even had the holder reteed the ball while kneeling, if the kicker had continuously been in position threatening to kick the ball.  IIRC since then at least one of the codes was amended to make the ball dead if the holder was kneeling with it after getting the ball other than from a snap.

Of course yet another possibility would've been for the a player of team A to have gained possession of the ball and then drop-kicked it, but I don't think that clip was going around.