Author Topic: 1 Sided  (Read 3754 times)

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Offline belebuch

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1 Sided
« on: July 26, 2014, 11:03:27 PM »
I saw awhile back in one of CMJ's post where a coach said he only runs power to the right and counter to the left, does anyone else do this or do you run them both sides? I believe he said it was due to time constraints.

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2014, 11:20:37 PM »
Personally I want balance to both sides.  Just makes you less predictable to a good coach
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Offline coachbelz

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2016, 04:10:43 PM »
If a coach is looking to cut down due to time constraints then he should only run counter both ways! Using no double teams!

Offline ZACH

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2016, 04:17:54 PM »
Hmm don't remember ... if you run power with the motioned H back like mountjoy advocates...it would make sence to simplify the power/counter game like that
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Offline coachbelz

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2016, 04:20:49 PM »
Personally I would cut out the OZ/IZ before the power/counter game. This is my opinion if I was short on time and didn't have the coaches/resources needed.

Offline ZACH

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2016, 05:17:32 PM »
Personally I would cut out the OZ/IZ before the power/counter game. This is my opinion if I was short on time and didn't have the coaches/resources needed.

Funny MJ himself said the opposite in his youth thread.  He man blocks zone and says those are the only running plays needed at youth and to focus on.

Zone takes less moving parts and arguably athleticism to execute... Block down and kick out and pull of power and counter is a lot of "whoops time" in youth anyway
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Offline morris

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2016, 05:41:02 PM »
If a coach is looking to cut down due to time constraints then he should only run counter both ways! Using no double teams!
This peaks my interest. Can you go into more detail about your line of thinking? Want would the rest of the run game be with time constraints? I Bill suggested with younger kids major in either IZ/OZ or Power/Counter. We had a year where we only had counter and sweep with some screens and did well. If we had a drop back game I think we would of done very well.

Offline morris

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2016, 06:50:06 PM »
Funny MJ himself said the opposite in his youth thread.  He man blocks zone and says those are the only running plays needed at youth and to focus on.

Zone takes less moving parts and arguably athleticism to execute... Block down and kick out and pull of power and counter is a lot of "whoops time" in youth anyway
In most cases he does say IZ/OZ and I think in part it's because that what he prefers. It's either in a thread or an email where he talked about just going power and counter and gap blocking (down block the whole front) the whole front. Then run counter pass (which is just bootleg). My thing is I know how to coach gap schemes but I'm not sure how well I can coach zone. The problem with gap is keying the H. That's where IZ is so good. That H slices and now he is on the backside of the play. It took a while for it to click how counter was the counter to IZ and not power.

Zach I know you know all of this. Some of what I've posted was so others understood who maybe haven't studied the stuff.

As to the original post goes. Yes a number of teams run power and counter in one direction. Auburn is one example and I know a number of HS that do the same. The post the OP is talking about is the Packers. The reason they do it is because they have to spend so much time on different pass protections. Now on the lower levels it does make sense to a degree because we are limited in time. We have two way players and a number of other issues that HS, College and Pro teams don't have to worry about. I've thought about it but never pulled the trigger. There is also a story about Shannahan doing a clinic about a pass play. He showed it to the right and was asked about running it to the left. He said John doesn't like to the left so we only run it to the right.

Offline ZACH

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2016, 07:29:58 PM »
His power/gap only set up I actually saw from Rich kelly...the issue I never understood was the H...the H always moves on power and can move on counter for the sake of consistency ide havem move every play to not key off the defense.

Counter in past seasons came in before power just because the counter action is mainly for tight zone as I understood it.

Running more pure mountjoy stuff last season taught me what an H back should be so now I'll have a much more athletic person in that spot.

Counter pass is great as is most play action in eco, it's the first pass we implement (off wide zone tho). The waggle is real and highly recommended
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Offline coachbelz

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2016, 07:38:55 PM »
The ways are infinite on how you can draw this stuff up, make sound choices and coach em hard!

Offline CD Rams Coach M

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2016, 07:58:22 PM »
I saw awhile back in one of CMJ's post where a coach said he only runs power to the right and counter to the left, does anyone else do this or do you run them both sides? I believe he said it was due to time constraints.

I find it hard to believe that coaches philosophy would hold up long term. And time constraints doesn't really make sense to me.
Willing to bet he would be alone in the thinking that you only run powers to one side and only counters to the other.

Offline Coach Smith

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2016, 08:39:25 PM »
I find it hard to believe that coaches philosophy would hold up long term. And time constraints doesn't really make sense to me.
Willing to bet he would be alone in the thinking that you only run powers to one side and only counters to the other.

I had seen a statistic (from a Dave Cisar study I believe) where a high majority of coaches, whether on purpose or not, power to the right and counter to the left. 
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Offline CD Rams Coach M

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2016, 08:58:45 PM »
I had seen a statistic (from a Dave Cisar study I believe) where a high majority of coaches, whether on purpose or not, power to the right and counter to the left.

Maybe I should consider that!! Always looking for something to try...

Offline CD Rams Coach M

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2016, 09:03:14 PM »
What I believe Bill actually said and what we did based on his recommendation was run power to the strong side and counter back weak (either right or left). This recommendation was based on the limited practice time at the youth level. We motioned H strong for kickout block on power and if the defense started to slide to motion we would motion h over strong like on power and bring him back weak to wrap on counter with pulling guard kicking out. It was very successful for us. A lot of teams never adjusted to the motion and we just powered them to death, but if they slid to motion we usually had a huge gain on counter.

Mike

This makes alot of sense...both in execution and ezplaining how it could have been misunderstood earlier.
Thanks Coach!

Offline morris

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Re: 1 Sided
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2016, 09:06:11 PM »
He was referring to the Packers and it was due to having to concentrate on pass protection. I'll see if I can find the post later. He did also talk about running power strong and counter weak as described above.