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Author Topic: Do you still punt?  (Read 5468 times)

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Offline Coachschro

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2012, 12:09:24 AM »
I feel like we have the best of both worlds. We rarely punt, but when we get in those dog fights I feel we have a unique way of punting with very little practice time.

We are shotgun spread no huddle team, so on 4th down in a close game where we need to flip field position we line up like normal. If you don't put someone back we will punt it out of our normal formation and typically get 20-40 yards on our punt with no risk of a return. If you put someone back on 4th and 10, we feel like we can convert 11 versus 10.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2012, 12:32:07 AM »
I guess I'm in the minority of youth coaches that still punt as part of a field position strategy
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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2012, 08:11:24 AM »
There is an exception to every rule ... Like I said we focus on dominating the situations that occur the vast majority of the time ... We want to ensure that we win the 99% and then try to overcome the 1% ...

It is possible that if your team didn't try to punt and didn't shoot itself in the foot numerous times that day that you may have won in a blowout ... The punt alone may have been a 14 point swing ...
We learned our lesson that game. Statistically it wasn't close. As much as our defense dominated, in retrospect, punting was probably a bad idea. But their punting game enabled to keep them in it.

Offline CoachBrian

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2012, 08:35:46 AM »
I don't punt.  I would do it sometimes if I had a kid that could punt it 30 yards down field but I don't have anyone that can punt it more than 15-20 yards total, which is probably no more than 10-12 yards down field.

Offline coachgt

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2012, 09:44:33 AM »
I punt anytime I am forward of the 50 but outside the 30. I have a kicker that can angle it to roll out. If you have a kicker, as a coach I feel you should cultivate his talent and use it in the game to help show the kid valuable. It's youth football. We are here to teach the ENTIRE game to these kids in preparation for the next level. How are we fulfilling this if we exclude special teams.
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Offline CoachJJ

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2012, 09:38:48 PM »
JJ

If you never need to punt or dont have to punt ...ever for an entire season...then you are never in a dog fight in a sudden death type game with a lot on teh line...was my point.

So...you are playing nothing but crappy opponents. Or you are so above the oppenets every week in every facet of the game. Take you pick....they mean the same thing.

I actually agree with all of the philosophies you posted up.. Makes perfect sense until you are faced with a real situation. Then what?

Playing full taps 100% of the time....works against the crappy teams always. Works against the better teams as well. I dont understand your point here.  :(

What I am telling you Mike is that we have less desire to punt against good or great teams ... If we played crappy teams all the time where we could afford to waste a possession by punting the ball then we might be more inclined to install Punt ...

But because PUNTING IS SUCH A GINORMOUS MISTAKE when facing the better teams, we feel like it is best to just delete that from our play book ... Against great teams, every possession is CRUCIAL ... So we do our best to always hang onto the ball as much as possible ... And any fourth downs we miss and turn over the ball are more than made up for by all the fourth downs we convert ...

Of course, this type of thing ain't for everyone ... Some people face 4th and 5 or 10 ... We almost NEVER need more than 3 or 4 yards on 4th down ... In part due to our offense ... In part because we call plays differently since we know we have 4 plays to work with ... In part because the simplicity of what we do helps to keep us almost mistake free ... In part because our kids are ultra confident in what we do ...

Just because it isn't for you ... does NOT mean we only play crappy teams ... Pulaski Academy doesn't play only crappy teams ... South Plaquemine didn't play only crappy teams in route to 2 or 3 State Titles after Hurricane Katrina ...
Coach JJ
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Offline CoachJJ

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2012, 09:45:36 PM »
We learned our lesson that game. Statistically it wasn't close. As much as our defense dominated, in retrospect, punting was probably a bad idea. But their punting game enabled to keep them in it.

Hard to say without knowing a lot more about the game and the team and what they run on offense ... But if they punted on 4th and short several times, it might have taken away their opportunities to win the game ...

If a Spread or Passing Offense misses 3 passes and they have 4th and 10 ... It is probably a good idea to punt away ...
If a Smashmouth DW Offense is getting 2-3 yards per carry and they have 4th and 3 ... It is a bad idea to punt away and give up a possession they could have kept and perhaps scored on ...
Coach JJ
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Online mahonz

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2012, 01:01:48 AM »
What I am telling you Mike is that we have less desire to punt against good or great teams ... If we played crappy teams all the time where we could afford to waste a possession by punting the ball then we might be more inclined to install Punt ...

But because PUNTING IS SUCH A GINORMOUS MISTAKE when facing the better teams, we feel like it is best to just delete that from our play book ... Against great teams, every possession is CRUCIAL ... So we do our best to always hang onto the ball as much as possible ... And any fourth downs we miss and turn over the ball are more than made up for by all the fourth downs we convert ...

Of course, this type of thing ain't for everyone ... Some people face 4th and 5 or 10 ... We almost NEVER need more than 3 or 4 yards on 4th down ... In part due to our offense ... In part because we call plays differently since we know we have 4 plays to work with ... In part because the simplicity of what we do helps to keep us almost mistake free ... In part because our kids are ultra confident in what we do ...

Just because it isn't for you ... does NOT mean we only play crappy teams ... Pulaski Academy doesn't play only crappy teams ... South Plaquemine didn't play only crappy teams in route to 2 or 3 State Titles after Hurricane Katrina ...

JJ...Buddy...shouldnt you be building an Ark right now?

Thinking about you and your family this evening. Hope all is cool.

I get what you are saying and completely agree. I just dont have the guts to be so gutsy in the big games.  :'(
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline davecisar

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2012, 07:54:19 AM »
Eventually at some point a team no matter what they run will be in a 4th and long situation

May not happen very often- but it happens

When I ran DW- we had a holding penalty, then we had a botched exchange. Did it happen often? Nope

I punt maybe 3-4 times a season- the only time I really need to punt- against the best teams

We ALWAYS punt it out of bounds

Ive seen SO MANY top teams in the country- lose because they couldnt punt. Their offense and defense look incredible- but since theyve never had to punt during the season- they dont punt well. PSL- the only reason they dont win their semifinal game in a blowout- the other team flipped the field on them all game long via the punting game.

If you want to be an elite team- you have to be able to do it all and be prepared for contingencies- things that happen infrequently. When you play against the best- tournaments etc- serious minded well coached and talented travel teams- that's going to happen.
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Offline bigshel

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2012, 11:35:20 AM »
Eventually at some point a team no matter what they run will be in a 4th and long situation

May not happen very often- but it happens

When I ran DW- we had a holding penalty, then we had a botched exchange. Did it happen often? Nope

I punt maybe 3-4 times a season- the only time I really need to punt- against the best teams

We ALWAYS punt it out of bounds

Ive seen SO MANY top teams in the country- lose because they couldnt punt. Their offense and defense look incredible- but since theyve never had to punt during the season- they dont punt well. PSL- the only reason they dont win their semifinal game in a blowout- the other team flipped the field on them all game long via the punting game.

If you want to be an elite team- you have to be able to do it all and be prepared for contingencies- things that happen infrequently. When you play against the best- tournaments etc- serious minded well coached and talented travel teams- that's going to happen.

Let the Church say "Amen."

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2012, 11:52:22 AM »
Hard to say without knowing a lot more about the game and the team and what they run on offense ... But if they punted on 4th and short several times, it might have taken away their opportunities to win the game ...

If a Spread or Passing Offense misses 3 passes and they have 4th and 10 ... It is probably a good idea to punt away ...
If a Smashmouth DW Offense is getting 2-3 yards per carry and they have 4th and 3 ... It is a bad idea to punt away and give up a possession they could have kept and perhaps scored on ...
They went for it on 4th a number of times. They averaged about 1.5 yds a down. They wee 4th and unmanageable all game. Honestly, if they had not punted we would of stuffed them and had much better field position. I still agree with you but that 1% sucks when you run into it. We cover punting but it is the least covered series in our practices. I am all for going for it on 4th and short in almost any situation.

Offline Coach_Miller

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2012, 11:55:46 AM »
 4th down and 8 and your on your own 10 yard line...do you punt?

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2012, 12:33:30 PM »
Depends on the score. Are they moving the ball on us? How much time on the clock? We did it 2 years ago with about a minute left and told the kid to roll and kick it out of bounds. He rolled and line drived it to the other teams best player. You know what happened next. They missed the 2 point conversation and we won 22-20. We would of lost in ot. Taking a safety was considered but the punter was a great athlete and had the roll out punt down to a science(not really sure how, we did not go over it to much). The last 2 years we have almost lost 2 games because we punted and the other team returned it for a td. Punting for us will always be a very difficult call from this point on.

Offline CoachJJ

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2012, 12:57:26 PM »
JJ...Buddy...shouldnt you be building an Ark right now?

Thinking about you and your family this evening. Hope all is cool.

I get what you are saying and completely agree. I just dont have the guts to be so gutsy in the big games.  :'(

When you live down here, the Ark is built and waiting ...

And if I had the talent to go to Disney, we might install a punt ... Until then I will live and die with the law of averages ...
Coach JJ
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Offline Coach D

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Re: Do you still punt?
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2012, 07:39:50 PM »
4th down and 8 and your on your own 10 yard line...do you punt?
That's where the Pulaski Academy coaches numbers and percentages come in (which I don't know off the top of my head and don't feel like googling at the moment  :P).  The math shows that punting from there at the youth thru High School level hurts more than not getting the first on a 4th down play and the other team getting the ball right there.  I know it sounds crazy, but when you see the numbers and percentages on it, it really makes sense.  I believe that more guys will punt in that situation more for fear of looking stupid going for it and more because of the crowd and parents who don't know the percentages who will want his head for going for it than for it being a smart thing to do.   And the percentages will show, that most will get a kick that gives the other team great field position, with more room for play-calling, a chance to use up more clock, etc.. etc....   

I hate the kicking game (reminds me too much of another sport that I can't stand but won't mention here)!  I will avoid it at all costs, but I will still spend practice time having a punt squad ready to kick it out of bounds if the situation really merits it.  But more and more, I believe that situation is very rare!  Even 4th and 8 on my own 10... 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 07:43:48 PM by Coach D »