Author Topic: Illegal Crack Back?  (Read 536 times)

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Offline mahonz

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Illegal Crack Back?
« on: October 13, 2018, 11:01:22 AM »
This was a good Crew. LG said if he led with his hands it was clean. Leading with the shoulder is a no no and 15 yards.

Seems like a clean block too me.

https://youtu.be/eqmlbZVas08
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Offline dcooz

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2018, 02:02:56 PM »
Clean block and flag was delayed

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2018, 02:30:12 PM »
I don't see how there's any reason to flag.  Not only was it w the hands, but it was directly in the face of the opponent.  Maybe that official thinks that any block good enough to knock an opponent down is illegal if the opponent is moving toward a sideline.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2018, 04:03:33 PM »
Glad you posted it. I really struggled with this play. When it happened, I cheered the hit, then when the flag came out, I said to the LJ, "C'mon, it was numbers to numbers."

Then, he explained the "lead with the hands" rule, which I had heard something about, and really backed off. I told him that I liked that rule and have never been a fan of shellacking a tackler who doesn't see it coming. So I spent the last 12 hours feeling bad about not knowing the rules and being part of the problem. I really don't think the game can survive if unnecessary huge collisions are allowed.

Then, I see the film and it doesn't look that bad at all. In person, it looked pretty violent. Based on the film, I see nothing to change or address. Not upset about the call, either. LJ was doing what he thought was right.

If anyone knows the "lead with the hands rule", please share. I want to look it up and get educated. I searched the rule book and case book for "peel" and "blind" and came up empty.
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Offline COACH JC

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2018, 05:32:49 PM »
All blocks at the youth levelwhere the defender hits the ground are illegal. Haven’t you learned this by now?
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Offline COACH JC

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2018, 05:40:00 PM »
Glad you posted it. I really struggled with this play. When it happened, I cheered the hit, then when the flag came out, I said to the LJ, "C'mon, it was numbers to numbers."

Then, he explained the "lead with the hands" rule, which I had heard something about, and really backed off. I told him that I liked that rule and have never been a fan of shellacking a tackler who doesn't see it coming. So I spent the last 12 hours feeling bad about not knowing the rules and being part of the problem. I really don't think the game can survive if unnecessary huge collisions are allowed.

Then, I see the film and it doesn't look that bad at all. In person, it looked pretty violent. Based on the film, I see nothing to change or address. Not upset about the call, either. LJ was doing what he thought was right.

If anyone knows the "lead with the hands rule", please share. I want to look it up and get educated. I searched the rule book and case book for "peel" and "blind" and came up empty.

Man, i’m shocked you don’t know this rule. You must have some lenient refs. We must have been flagged 20 times for this last year (when it became a point of emphasis).

That was a clean block, but it doesn’t matter. If you knock a defender down in the open field, no matter how you do it, gonna get a flag 90% of the time. I’m not even exaggerating. As soon as we knock a player down I just look at my play card for the best  ____ & long play.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2018, 06:09:26 PM »
Then, I see the film and it doesn't look that bad at all.

That's because it wasn't bad at all.  Nothing wrong with the block.  Plenty wrong with the ref.  Refs always gotta show-off and act as if they're smarter than everyone else.  We got called today for interlocked blocking on Wedge.  You can penalize us for a lot of things, but interlocked blocking simply isn't one of them.  If you're going to penalize (and what referee doesn't enjoy that?) there are a bazillion real penalties that occur on every play that you could call.  Problem is, that'd require work on their part to really watch the game.  That "illegal" block in your game?  Everyone saw it, so that's the perfect opportunity for that ref to try and teach everyone a lesson.  What Jake said is spot on.

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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2018, 07:29:45 PM »
Clean block and flag was delayed
It was delayed because the official had to wind up to throw it that far!

Offline COACH JC

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2018, 09:57:40 PM »
I’ve given up worrying about it. We are BY FAR the most heavily penalized team. Mostly cuz we’re the only team actually blocking, and the refs are reffing the score.

Just go out playing aggressive mean football, & live w/ the consequences. Start worrying about penalties & you’ll make your team play slower. I’m content w/ knowing we’ll often just have to score 2 or 3 times on any give possession.
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Offline ZACH

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2018, 10:23:40 PM »
This was a good Crew. LG said if he led with his hands it was clean. Leading with the shoulder is a no no and 15 yards.

Seems like a clean block too me.

https://youtu.be/eqmlbZVas08

My recent venture into officiating and certification taught me the place of the helmet is super important im judging and its relation to the play.  Ill watch as soon as it loads im in a bad reception area. However shoulder vs hands leading should not be the reason for throwing a flag in football
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2018, 11:03:09 PM »
As I read the rule (2-3-10), I believe the LJ was correct.

"A blindside block is a block against an opponent other than the runner who does not see the blocker approaching."

Then, rule 2-32-16 defines a defenseless player as "A player who receives a blindside block with forceful contact not initiated with open hands."

It could be argued that the tackler should have seen the block coming, but it was clear that he didn't.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2018, 11:49:10 PM »
It could be argued that the tackler should have seen the block coming, but it was clear that he didn't.

I'll argue that he saw the block.  How could he not?  It was right in front of him.  Now, whether he saw it in time to do anything about it is a different argument. 

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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2018, 09:42:53 AM »
I had a front row seat to the show. Poor kid had no idea. But watching film, their big boys we’re doing the same thing all day to our little guys. And as I told my kids during the “hammer” demo, “If you are running around looking like a nail,a hammer is going to find you.”
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Offline rozelle25

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2018, 10:19:57 AM »
It's all about the hands. We had many flags last year since it was a point of emphasis. My son got called for one and he was hardly the aggressive head hunter type. It was a teaching point.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Illegal Crack Back?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2018, 12:56:19 PM »
I'll argue that he saw the block.  How could he not?  It was right in front of him.
Maybe the way many of us coach: the transparent blocker.  We want the defender to focus on the ball.

Honestly, the way I coach, I really don't care if our players get knocked to the ground.  That's football.  As long as they contribute to the play, where they wind up is immaterial.  Was there anything that defender could've done better to affect the outcome of the play?  Not AFAICT.  Whether he gets knocked on his tush or just gets held up a bit, it's the same as far as the play goes.  That player could've used his feet & body better to not get knocked over, but it really doesn't matter in terms of a football game.  It's not wrestling.

By the same token, I don't care if our blocker puts that player on the ground or just does the minimum necessary to keep him from making the tackle.  I certainly don't mind seeing his opponent getting knocked down.

There are some blocks that are effective only if the opponent is knocked down.  Then I care.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 01:05:56 PM by Bob Goodman »