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Author Topic: Why!  (Read 738 times)

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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Why!
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2017, 11:32:13 PM »
Part of our agilities is a drill called the meat grinder. It has a built in portion that teaches kids while chasing from behind to not never touch a player in the back. They do this every day....at least 5 reps each.
Have you described this drill here, & could you please supply a link to it?

Offline jrk5150

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Re: Why!
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2017, 10:49:44 AM »
I coach them to stop, turn away from the ball, & block somebody chasing the play from behind them.

Which is frequently a penalty if the kid they're blocking is out of the play.

Refs are super inconsistent with this.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Why!
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2017, 11:44:22 AM »
Which is frequently a penalty if the kid they're blocking is out of the play.

Refs are super inconsistent with this.
Probably because they don't watch the whole action.  No way they should flag you for blocking someone who's moving toward the ball.  But I'm sure it does happen if the official sees only the player go down.

Offline bigshel

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Re: Why!
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2017, 01:14:01 PM »
Probably because they don't watch the whole action.  No way they should flag you for blocking someone who's moving toward the ball.  But I'm sure it does happen if the official sees only the player go down.

In our conference, if the pursuing defender is not within 5 yards of the ballcarrier, that block will draw a flag. I was told that by a referee. I have even seen it thrown within five yards (on us) when the ref deemed it a blindside hit on a defenseless player.

Offline jrk5150

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Re: Why!
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2017, 01:15:41 PM »
Probably because they don't watch the whole action.  No way they should flag you for blocking someone who's moving toward the ball.  But I'm sure it does happen if the official sees only the player go down.

Depends on whether the player has a chance to get into the play.  By rule, hitting a player that isn't part of the play is a penalty.

Pure judgement call, unfortunately.

My QB got knocked out of a game by a peel back block like that.  Never saw it coming, and no way was he was going to catch the ball carrier he was 10 yards behind and the kid was pulling away.  No flag.  And that play was a double whammy - was the winning score mostly because we weren't able to do much with our back up QB.  If that hit didn't happen, we probably win the game.  If they throw the flag and the TD came back, we probably win the game as we pretty much shut them down after that play.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Why!
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2017, 06:14:08 PM »
Have you described this drill here, & could you please supply a link to it?

Pretty much this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0njf17oHZbM&feature=youtu.be
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Why!
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2017, 10:13:48 PM »
In our conference, if the pursuing defender is not within 5 yards of the ballcarrier, that block will draw a flag. I was told that by a referee. I have even seen it thrown within five yards (on us) when the ref deemed it a blindside hit on a defenseless player.
But was it actually blind side?  Since I'm coaching the blocker to turn around, in the situation I'm thinking of, the opponent would be coming towards the blocker.  Hard to figure how that'd be blind side.

Offline COACH JC

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Re: Why!
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2017, 10:22:21 PM »
In our conference, if the pursuing defender is not within 5 yards of the ballcarrier, that block will draw a flag. I was told that by a referee. I have even seen it thrown within five yards (on us) when the ref deemed it a blindside hit on a defenseless player.

I'm pretty much of the opinion that if you're breaking a long run, virtually any block in any circumstance is likely to get flagged.

At the same time, I really don't want to talk to our guys about ways to be less agressive, especially when it comes to blocking.

It must have something to do w/ their training. Perhaps going to the local source of the training might be the way to go? I'm sure the NFL has told their refs "look, we don't want TD's called back." Clearly that is not the same message youth referees are getting.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 11:53:23 PM by COACH JC »
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Offline coachdoug

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Re: Why!
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2017, 11:09:29 PM »
But was it actually blind side?  Since I'm coaching the blocker to turn around, in the situation I'm thinking of, the opponent would be coming towards the blocker.  Hard to figure how that'd be blind side.
Bob - the way you're coaching it is not what bigshel was talking about.  However, I have been told by officials in numerous different areas over the past 10 years, that they are going to flag any unnecessary contact (i.e. blocking) against any opponent who is out of the play (i.e. 5-20+ yards behind the runner, depending on the official). So, I would caution you against teaching it the way you say you are - I can see that leading to a number of unnecessary flags that bring back scoring plays.  Bottom line - if the defender has no chance to make the play, he should not be blocked.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Why!
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2017, 12:28:42 AM »
Pretty much this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0njf17oHZbM&feature=youtu.be

In this drill notice what the first blocker is tasked to do AFTER his initial block.

We mimic this drill to the letter except in practice they work towards a dummy at the end to tackle and on game day they work towards a football to scoop and score....5 lines....4 deep....1 resting. if ANYONE gets touched in the back by the first man....pushups for that line.

We get flagged more than the average for blocking in the back.

More than the aveage for holding.

Roughing the passer

PI

Un-necessary roughness away from the play

Illegal substitutions.

About the only thing we dont get flagged for are neutral zone infractions or false starts. Most false starts get called on our Center...of all positions?

Anyhoo...appreciate the feed back from everyone.

Some things to chew on.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Why!
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2017, 02:42:36 AM »
Man, when you put it out like that, it seems pretty bad. My take:

We get flagged more than the average for blocking in the back.

Offensively, it was one guy, X-man. We fixed him. After that, it would happen very occasionally in blowouts. Microscopes tend to come out when you're up by 20.
On special teams, it seems to happen on 1 in 3 big returns. Since we onside kick, we don't give the other team opportunities for big returns and blocks in the back.

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More than the aveage for holding.
Yeah, I'll concede that. Mostly lazy feet and flaring elbows. This Spring, those two items will be focused on more at a fundamental level.

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Roughing the passer
I can only remember the one vs Thunderchickens. Were there more? That aside, we never gave anyone a chance to rough our QB, plus, half the league was terrified of him even if they got a free shot on him.

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PI
I still think that's a misinterpretation of "face guarding"

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Un-necessary roughness away from the play
Agreed. Comes with the territory when our mantra is "rip their faces off".

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Illegal substitutions.
Don't remember any of those. I remember having 10 on the field a lot.

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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Why!
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2017, 06:33:11 AM »
Man, when you put it out like that, it seems pretty bad. My take:

Offensively, it was one guy, X-man. We fixed him. After that, it would happen very occasionally in blowouts. Microscopes tend to come out when you're up by 20.
On special teams, it seems to happen on 1 in 3 big returns. Since we onside kick, we don't give the other team opportunities for big returns and blocks in the back.
Yeah, I'll concede that. Mostly lazy feet and flaring elbows. This Spring, those two items will be focused on more at a fundamental level.
I can only remember the one vs Thunderchickens. Were there more? That aside, we never gave anyone a chance to rough our QB, plus, half the league was terrified of him even if they got a free shot on him.
I still think that's a misinterpretation of "face guarding"
Agreed. Comes with the territory when our mantra is "rip their faces off".
Don't remember any of those. I remember having 10 on the field a lot.
Wait, wait, wait, wait............ wait a minute. You have a team in your league called the Thunder Chickens. I absolutely want to coach that team. I will retire from retirement and move to Colorado.

Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: Why!
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2017, 09:21:42 AM »
Wait, wait, wait, wait............ wait a minute. You have a team in your league called the Thunder Chickens. I absolutely want to coach that team. I will retire from retirement and move to Colorado.

I was thinking the exact same thing as I was reading!  :D

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Why!
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2017, 09:50:43 AM »
Wait, wait, wait, wait............ wait a minute. You have a team in your league called the Thunder Chickens. I absolutely want to coach that team. I will retire from retirement and move to Colorado.

Thunder Hawks. Thunder Chicken is his nickname for them. He's not a hunter, so he doesn't know that "Thunder Chicken" is what wild turkeys are called. There's another team called the Fire Hawks that we call the Fire Chickens.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Why!
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2017, 10:12:21 AM »
Man, when you put it out like that, it seems pretty bad. My take:

Offensively, it was one guy, X-man. We fixed him. After that, it would happen very occasionally in blowouts. Microscopes tend to come out when you're up by 20.
On special teams, it seems to happen on 1 in 3 big returns. Since we onside kick, we don't give the other team opportunities for big returns and blocks in the back.
Yeah, I'll concede that. Mostly lazy feet and flaring elbows. This Spring, those two items will be focused on more at a fundamental level.
I can only remember the one vs Thunderchickens. Were there more? That aside, we never gave anyone a chance to rough our QB, plus, half the league was terrified of him even if they got a free shot on him.
I still think that's a misinterpretation of "face guarding"
Agreed. Comes with the territory when our mantra is "rip their faces off".
Don't remember any of those. I remember having 10 on the field a lot.

Illegal Participation....or whatever its called for 12 on the field for Defense and why I took over all substitutions. I think Illegal Substitution is for the Offense.

Lar....we had a problem and I dont know why. I know we all worked hard on this but it seemed to get worse in the playoffs. Think of all the drives killed or extended this past season. Frustrating. Luckly we were able to overcome them.
Collect moments, not wins.