Author Topic: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )  (Read 640 times)

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Offline Coach Correa

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Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« on: March 21, 2018, 01:36:21 PM »
Me and Joe had a long conversation this mourning and had pro's and con's for both sides.  Would love to hear what some of you guy's prefer and why. I;ve done it both ways and have had a ton of success either way but believe it's more so because we stress DOUBLE TEAM so much in warm up's, indy, group and team time. But do tend to lean towards flippers because it packs more of a punch and more things are involved synergy wise. With two of us fitted properly with proper hip relationship our surface is extended two ways which makes harder for DLM to spin off, spike, slant, or angle. Even if we were losing him or got into truoble and needed to hold legally LOL it's very easy to drop that elbow and roll the wrist over. What are your guys thoughts theres my opinion on it ?  Part of my overall philosophy is always having enough tools in the tool box to create answers and be able to fix them.
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Offline Dimson

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2018, 02:21:51 PM »
I have only taught hands. But if I ever coach 8U again, I am coming to you for some flipper ideas.

Offline CoachCalande

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2018, 03:39:31 PM »
Me and Joe had a long conversation this mourning and had pro's and con's for both sides.  Would love to hear what some of you guy's prefer and why. I;ve done it both ways and have had a ton of success either way but believe it's more so because we stress DOUBLE TEAM so much in warm up's, indy, group and team time. But do tend to lean towards flippers because it packs more of a punch and more things are involved synergy wise. With two of us fitted properly with proper hip relationship our surface is extended two ways which makes harder for DLM to spin off, spike, slant, or angle. Even if we were losing him or got into truoble and needed to hold legally LOL it's very easy to drop that elbow and roll the wrist over. What are your guys thoughts theres my opinion on it ?  Part of my overall philosophy is always having enough tools in the tool box to create answers and be able to fix them.


Flippers for staying on and moving one man
Hands for 4 eyes, 4 hands to combo to a backer


Depends on your goals and philosophies
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2018, 04:15:30 PM »
Depends what type of double team.

2-on-1 drive:  Both shoulder block.  Outside arms free for balance to adjust if opponent moves laterally.

Blocks to move opponent sideways:  Near blocker uses hands.  Far blocker uses shoulder if going for knockdown shot or if chipping to go to 2nd level.  Far blocker may use hands to move opponent sideways if opponent has good position of balance with low center of gravity.

But I can also coach side of the body by 1st blocker, shoulder by 2nd blocker, or an angled version of drive block with each blocker using a shoulder.

The amount & direction of force that can be delivered is only part of the considerations.  The other is being sure to see a free path to put part of your body on part of the opponent's body w/o wasting force on your teammate.  What I like about hands for a set-up block is that it gives you enough body separation  that your teammate can easily get a shoulder in.

A lot of coaching manuals spend a lot of space on situations where the opponent is to the same side of both blockers.  I wouldn't worry about such situations; if the near blocker already has an angle, a double team is unnecessary.  If the opponent turns toward the gap where the blocker was coming from, pains taken in the initial block to prevent penetration (often written of in books from before the era of liberal use of the hands & arms in blocking) are superfluous.  The best I could prepare my players for such a situation would be for the far blocker to check, and then if the opponent has turned to that gap, turn it into the angled drive block mentioned above, but the near blocker has to recognize that and give up half a man for the teammate to be able to hit; at my level of competition, I'd just as soon settle for a standoff 1-on-1 against a "psychic" opponent like that, rather than take a chance on the blockers misassessing it and letting the opponent split them.

Offline ZACH

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2018, 06:19:36 PM »
Closest arm to defender punches...away arm swats and grabs for us.

So i guess we are a little of both
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Offline defensewins

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2018, 11:16:35 PM »
Inside OL has his outside arm (the one that is closest to the DL) flipper on the DL.  His inside arm is OFF of the DL, pumping and diving with great eyes inside and on the LB they are working towards. 

Outside OL has both hands on the DL and is driving the DL.  He may or may not be able to see the DL that they are working towards. 

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2018, 08:33:53 PM »
Never say "never," but I'll never teach "hands," especially at the youth level.  Why you would teach a player to block with what is one of his weakest body parts (Arms? Hands?) is beyond me.  Even at the high school level, we can squat more weight than we can bench.  Thighs are much stronger than arms.  How many pushups can your kids do?  10?  20?  And yet you want them to control a defensive player with arms?  And lock-out to get separation?  I don't want separation.  And every defensive lineman (that's taught well) already knows how to get inside hand leverage and replace.  So why would I ask my players to block with a weak body part, get separation which I don't want, and use a technique against one of the most heavily-practiced techniques used among defensive linemen?  And don't get me started on the holding penalties...just my 5 cents worth.

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Offline Michael

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2018, 10:03:47 PM »
I really think hands vs. shoulder really misstates things.

To me, the two schools are (a) lean and drive and (b) lift and drive.

Hands blocking, done right, can be very violent.  But the "Frankenstein" stuff so many youth teams do really gives it a bad name, and it's often what shoulder guys think of when someone talks about hands blocking.

And we use the hands to squeeze the guy in tight, never to separate.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2018, 11:23:51 PM »
Hands blocking, done right, can be very violent.

--Yes, I agree.  But that's if "done right," which I rarely see.  I don't believe it's as violent as what we do, which is getting the elbows and forearms into the body of the defender.  Since we're trying to move the defender by hurting him, we take this approach which we believe is more uncomfortable to a defender than getting a "shock" from a pair of hands to the defender's armpits.

But the "Frankenstein" stuff so many youth teams do really gives it a bad name, and it's often what shoulder guys think of when someone talks about hands blocking.

--It's not just youth teams, Michael.  And the clinics I've attended teach this Frankenstein-stuff, which has always left me scratching my head wondering "why?"

--Dave
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2018, 06:15:10 PM »
You wonder why I'd want separation on a double team?  If a blocker squarely in front of the opponent can stand him up right there -- not a shock to the armpits, but a lift on the sternum -- it leaves the opponent in as set-up a position as I can imagine to be knocked down by a medium-to-high hit by a shoulder in the side.  If instead you bring him in close, then the blocker from the side has a harder time picking out the target.  Why take a chance on wasting half your force on a teammate?

Offline Michael

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 08:05:18 PM »
You wonder why I'd want separation on a double team?  If a blocker squarely in front of the opponent can stand him up right there -- not a shock to the armpits, but a lift on the sternum -- it leaves the opponent in as set-up a position as I can imagine to be knocked down by a medium-to-high hit by a shoulder in the side.  If instead you bring him in close, then the blocker from the side has a harder time picking out the target.  Why take a chance on wasting half your force on a teammate?

Jesus, Bob.  You just hit the whole thing and put everybody on the ground.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2018, 09:09:50 PM »
You wonder why I'd want separation on a double team?  If a blocker squarely in front of the opponent can stand him up right there -- not a shock to the armpits, but a lift on the sternum

You're still asking him to block with the weaker part of his body.

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Offline Michael

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2018, 10:32:21 PM »
You're still asking him to block with the weaker part of his body.

--Dave

I think Bob is more into choreographing fight scenes than gaining yards.  But hey, everyone has their thing.
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Double Teams ( Hands or Flipper's )
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2018, 11:29:04 PM »
You're still asking him to block with the weaker part of his body.
True.  That's his job in this case.  He's not supposed to "win".

And as to knocking the whole pile sideways, it's less likely to happen if you have to spread your impact like that.

And I have experience smacking into piles of standing bodies from rugby.  Why do you think they make you come in from behind your teammate & bind onto him as you do?  It blunts the force you'll deliver to the opponents, & especially the knockdown factor.  They design it to make it unlikely you'll tip the pile over.