Author Topic: Big Backs  (Read 2428 times)

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Offline BigHatJack

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Big Backs
« on: July 26, 2017, 12:20:59 AM »
Drafted my 3rd/4th grade team a couple days ago. Play in a league with a 100 lb limit for skill positions.
Here are my second year players:
Andrew. 135 lb. SLOW. LAZY. MPP last year for another team.
Brett. 90 lb. fastest kid. Great athlete and wrestler.
Bennett. 98 lb. above avg speed and aggression.
Caden. 99.6 lb. 2nd fastest. Very strong.
Jaxson. 115 lb. very good lineman and wrestles.
Zane. 80 lb. also very fast.
Four other kids 55-70 lb. Avg quickness and speed.
Six new 4th graders 55-75 lb. a few with pretty good speed.
Five new 3rd graders. One tiny, two 80 lb unknowns, a 70 lb with good speed, and 100 lb with good feet but little aggression.

With this mix, I know Jaxson is RG, Brett is tailback, Zane is wing. I'm thinking Bennett at power tackle and Andrew at inside tackle rotating with my 100 lb 3rd grader if I can coach them up. My dilemma is what to do with Caden. He's the tallest kid I have, so probably no blocking back. Do I keep him under 100 and use him at fullbacks? Right end? I'd sure like to get him the ball and not waste his speed, but not at the expense of what could be a powerful line. Any suggestions?

Offline Dimson

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2017, 07:57:41 AM »
I would put him at TE. You can use him to block on the line and still take advantage of his speed.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2017, 08:02:16 AM »
I think te works. Is his weight an every week thing or just week one? Does he get weight during the year? TE is the best of both worlds for this kid. Is te considered a skill position? If so then by formation you can really screw with your opponents based on formation. TE is actually just a place on the field. Take that guy out wide and he is now a split end. Step him back and he is an h or a wing. It can technically be a tackle if he does not have a man next to him. Silly rules set themselves up for silly exploitations.

Offline davecisar

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 08:34:01 AM »
coach

Looks like you did very well in your draft

Lots of options here

Make sure you take advice from people that have actually run this offense
Not from someone that has just read about it
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline Dimson

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2017, 08:55:29 AM »
coach

Looks like you did very well in your draft

Lots of options here

Make sure you take advice from people that have actually run this offense
Not from someone that has just read about it
Good thing Rob has run your offense and run it at a very high level.  ;D

Offline jcarbon2

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2017, 10:00:26 AM »
I tend to agree with PTE. Can he catch? BIG plus if he can  :)

Expert in "BRAIN DEAD DEFENSE" and the "CAVEMAN SPREAD"

Offline davecisar

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2017, 10:07:31 AM »
Good thing Rob has run your offense and run it at a very high level.  ;D

Yep I'm a huge fan of rob
That's why I said listen to those who have run it successfully

You however have not
Speculation on your part

I don't comment on position placements in offenses I haven't mastered or at least run several years on grass
But that's just me
I want to give fractual accurate real world advice based on what I've done in real life
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 10:27:27 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2017, 10:23:06 AM »
Drafted my 3rd/4th grade team a couple days ago. Play in a league with a 100 lb limit for skill positions.
Here are my second year players:
Andrew. 135 lb. SLOW. LAZY. MPP last year for another team.
Brett. 90 lb. fastest kid. Great athlete and wrestler.
Bennett. 98 lb. above avg speed and aggression.
Caden. 99.6 lb. 2nd fastest. Very strong.
Jaxson. 115 lb. very good lineman and wrestles.
Zane. 80 lb. also very fast.
Four other kids 55-70 lb. Avg quickness and speed.
Six new 4th graders 55-75 lb. a few with pretty good speed.
Five new 3rd graders. One tiny, two 80 lb unknowns, a 70 lb with good speed, and 100 lb with good feet but little aggression.

With this mix, I know Jaxson is RG, Brett is tailback, Zane is wing. I'm thinking Bennett at power tackle and Andrew at inside tackle rotating with my 100 lb 3rd grader if I can coach them up. My dilemma is what to do with Caden. He's the tallest kid I have, so probably no blocking back. Do I keep him under 100 and use him at fullbacks? Right end? I'd sure like to get him the ball and not waste his speed, but not at the expense of what could be a powerful line. Any suggestions?

The key to this offense is a competent 3 back/bb
The best 3s I have had have been short and strong or medium and strong
In any event they need to be physical

I don't alwys put my fastest kid at qb/1
It depends on the entire equation
The goal being to max it out

I like having big strong 1s
I've also had a couple of bigger 3s
It all depends on the rest of the puzzle
In any event the years I have won championships I always ran qb by committee
I wouldn't rule Brett out as your 3 or Caden out as your 1 or 3 until you put on the pads
My better right ends usually pull double duty so figure out another kid who can get you some reps at tight end
You don't need a great 2 back in this o
So maybe Bennett is a kid who can log double duty as right end and 2

Looks like you have the nucleus of a top 25  percent team
The big lazy kid
Coach him up
If you make progress he is your rt
If not then your lg
Note that many kids excellent under different coaching
When I did my Reno worst to first thing I had several benc warmers that really took a new shine
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 10:25:07 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline Dimson

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2017, 10:31:20 AM »
Yep I'm a huge fan of rob
That's why I said listen to those who have run it successfully

You however have not
Speculation on your part

I don't comment on position placements in offenses I haven't mastered or at least run several years on grass
But that's just me
I want to give fractual accurate real world advice based on what I've done in real life
It only makes sense to play him there unless the TE never goes out for a pass in your offense. It is just common sense, no matter what version of the SW you run. No matter what offense you run, the TE is there to block and catch passes. And that kid sounds like a perfect candidate for a TE.

Offline davecisar

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2017, 10:43:43 AM »
You haven't run this offense
You have zero practical hands on experience in player placement with it

No one said none of the other kids can't catch and there looks to be a very able candidate
The key in this o is the 3 then the 1
That comes from 200 plus games coaching it

I've run it for 19 seasons and helping 100s of teams to solve this exact issue
And I'm telling him what I'm suggesting based on the needs of the offense
Just because someone looks like the part doesn't mean the equation is maxed out by him playing the part
Feel free to comment on every thread no matter what
Don't limit yourself to youth forums go ahead and advise college and nfl teams on player placement in their offenses since lack of hands on experience in a topic means nothing  ::) 8)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 12:28:27 PM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline Dimson

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2017, 11:18:15 AM »
I change my mind, he should be the spinner back. Because I am certain he can spin better than anyone on the team.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2017, 11:23:25 AM »
Fastest isn't something I necessarily need at any of the 4 back positions. Strong and reliable at 1 back. He is the best overall rb. 16 power is your base play so the 1 better be good at running it off tackle and not bouncing. You can fix that but if you got a kid that you don't have to worry about that, even better.

The 2 back is the tricky one in my mind. The series you run will help point you in the right direction. Spinner was my favorite series. As with the one back running inside, some kids are just naturally better at the spin so if you have one of those then I would start to lean that direction. Again, not necessarily a definite as you can coach just about any kid to do spin but.... well you get the picture. 2 back has to be athletic.

Dave always says that the 3 back and rg are almost interchangeable. If not completely interchangeable. I agree but in a striper league you might not have that option. The kick out is such a huge part of this offense that I think he needs to be your most physical kid. The amount of carries he gets aren't going to be huge unless you lean heavy on wedge so I would be looking for the better blocker over the better runner.

The 4 backs big run is 43 and speed kills at 43. Everybody is going to call plays to their strengths OR place positions for what they want their strengths to be if that makes sense. I believe Dave runs 43 much more than we ever did so he might look at it a little differently. The 4 backs block is usually the one block that turns a 4 yard gain into a 60 yard gain on 16. We wanted a good blocker at 4 with decent speed. 16 was easily our best play, as it is supposed to be. We built the offense so 16 ran great. That sacrificed a bit on 43 and maybe some other plays but that was a trade off we were ok with.

In the end, Dave has all this laid out in his material. You know your kids and probably have a vision of what you want to install. Remember that what you want the team to be and what they turn into are often very different things. Following what Dave has laid out is the best place to begin. I believe for the most part we looked for the same things Dave does. With experience you can fine tune that to your needs.

Offline davecisar

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2017, 11:38:00 AM »
Rob is spot on
The 4 needs to be able to block has to be able to block
We have run that by committee as well

Your equation is your equation
Unless you have a select team or can put kids back into the draft or get them to drop etc
You have to make accommodations and work out what you have
It isn't an exact science
Make sure you are cross training
That's due to both development and injuries
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 11:48:28 AM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline belebuch

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2017, 11:42:47 AM »
Had our best season with a big kid at the 1 back position. Had good speed and was a load to bring down. Could throw pretty good as well.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Big Backs
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2017, 11:56:50 AM »
I have had the pleasure of coaching against Dan Schlager a handful of times. I'm sure some of you know who he is. The last two years he had, in my mind, the perfect one back. Reminded me very much of our one back in 08 and 09.