Author Topic: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....  (Read 40271 times)

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Offline angalton

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2015, 02:11:23 PM »
Where is he retreating? Lineman keep moving with force in the direction the D lineman wants to go. You want to go left, let's go left. You want to go right, let's go right. You what to go backwards, I'm with you. Ohh you want to go up field, I'll try to get you to the end zone. We work on this in slow Oklahoma.
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Online Michael

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2015, 02:13:30 PM »
If we lose him it's a race to the ball, and then, if our guys get past him, our guys will generally turn and lean into the guy, basically, while still running.

It's not like a block in the back counts as being on the guy at the whistle.  Hell, blocks in the back are never sustained, so unless they happen AT the whistle, they wouldn't count even if they were legal.
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Offline angalton

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2015, 02:16:54 PM »
A

Here is what they are calling IMHO.

Example. Your ROT is blocking his man and continues to block his man to the whistle. RB breaks out and the ROT continues to block him man 10 yards behind the RB....un-necessarily.

White Hat is naturally trailing and sees this....flag. 


Watch the Back Judge on this play. He is on a mission to throw his flag...and does....after the RB has clearly broken out into space.

https://youtu.be/HV28dxL19kc

This is the ONLY issue I have with Michael's philosophy. If your man is on his man and the RB busts out...the Defender is going to turn and chase....so now your blocker is turning and chasing....here comes the block in the back.  Or if they continue to battle well behind the play...still a flag.

This is why I now tell em....3 seconds of pain and then watch! If the FB isn't past you in 3 seconds....not your fault. I also want them to save their energy so they can play DL.

Im really not sure what else can be done to avoid a really bad flag on a great run. Its a killer.
Yes, exactly what happens. Is that a real penalty? My dumb arse got flagged for arguing with the ref. That only happened once. That's a penalty I will except, because I am not telling them to stop.
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Online Michael

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2015, 02:20:16 PM »
If your man is on his man and the RB busts out...the Defender is going to turn and chase....so now your blocker is turning and chasing....

If you catch them right, and time it right, they'll go right down.

We work a ton on putting a guy down right when he gets ready to pull that "eleven men on the ball" bullish__.
“If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein

Offline mahonz

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2015, 02:24:31 PM »
Yes, exactly what happens. Is that a real penalty? My dumb arse got flagged for arguing with the ref. That only happened once. That's a penalty I will except, because I am not telling them to stop.

A

Interesting.

I went all in on Poison calls that are common for Punt Return.

Any play on Offense that busts out.....POISON !!!!!!!! and you'd better be taking the Jog of Shame.   :P

We even had a beautiful pick 6 get called back for a block in the back. On film its a really dumb penalty by our guys.

Hell....every Punt or KOR in the NFL that is run back tends to draw a flag.  >:(
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Offline angalton

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2015, 02:44:47 PM »
These weren't blocks in the back, holding, or targeting a defenseless player. These were stay on the block a driving them till the whistle.
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Offline COACH JC

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2015, 02:49:13 PM »
Where is he retreating? Lineman keep moving with force in the direction the D lineman wants to go. You want to go left, let's go left. You want to go right, let's go right. You what to go backwards, I'm with you. Ohh you want to go up field, I'll try to get you to the end zone. We work on this in slow Oklahoma.

If D-Lineman are chasing down your RB, you have a RB issue, not a lineman issue.

But ya, you blow them off the ball, they see runner breakaway, so they turn & run. You cant block a guy who has turned to run toward the ball.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2015, 02:50:51 PM »
This discussion reminded me of my OC and how sick he was of bad flags.

Here is another long Beast run by our little 85 pound bundle of wow.

Listen to our OC at the end of the run. He isn't even watching his RB score....he is worried about flags. This game was really bad when it came to us getting flagged. All mercy calls. We crushed this team. I even got flagged...and warned again by one of the Black Hats after the game as I was leaving. He felt we were way too aggressive as a team and as a Staff and warned me to dial it back for the Playoffs....that told me right there....our game is in trouble.

https://youtu.be/Xe6rH__F66c
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Offline BigD

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2015, 02:56:21 PM »
In our league it seems if the front line is engaged and blocking till the whistle they will mostly let that go with a warning no matter where the ball is but if the olineman loses his man and then goes and finds another one around the 1st level it draws a flag if there is any kind of effort put into the hit.  If it's 2nd or 3rd level they better be within 10 yards of the ball and not near the endzone or they throw the flag.  Clean blocks, just deemed unnecessary.

Offline COACH JC

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2015, 03:01:21 PM »
If we lose him it's a race to the ball, and then, if our guys get past him, our guys will generally turn and lean into the guy, basically, while still running.

It's not like a block in the back counts as being on the guy at the whistle.  Hell, blocks in the back are never sustained, so unless they happen AT the whistle, they wouldn't count even if they were legal.

Ya, see I don't want that at all. I don't want my lineman running anywhere near the ball, unless thats their assignment.

I've always believed that RB's need room to work. The more bodies near the ball, the less room they have. I want my backs & recievers setting screens in the open field, but I don't want my lineman running toward the ball. If their defender turns & runs to the ball, I prefer they move on to the next guy that they have an angle on.

Part of this could just be that I'm a gap scheme guy & you're a zone scheme guy. All of our plays are desigined to pick off the 2nd & 3rd level guys, we have "touchdown" blocks built in. We know for the most part exaxtly where the ball is going. Where as in a zone scheme the ball could go damn newr anywhere, so your lineman all need to stay engaged all the time constantly working up.

And to be clear, I don't tell our guys stop blocking after 3-4 seconds. I just tell them that I need max effort for that periord of time. After that you can work up field & set screens, slow down flow. But I don't want them looking to find the ball & running toward it.
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Offline COACH JC

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #55 on: December 31, 2015, 03:09:06 PM »
This discussion reminded me of my OC and how sick he was of bad flags.

Here is another long Beast run by our little 85 pound bundle of wow.

Listen to our OC at the end of the run. He isn't even watching his RB score....he is worried about flags. This game was really bad when it came to us getting flagged. All mercy calls. We crushed this team. I even got flagged...and warned again by one of the Black Hats after the game as I was leaving. He felt we were way too aggressive as a team and as a Staff and warned me to dial it back for the Playoffs....that told me right there....our game is in trouble.

https://youtu.be/Xe6rH__F66c

Oh ya, when they break away coaches & players yell poison. & sometimes our guy gets tackled. But it's a lot better than having it called back, thats for sure.
It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!

Online Michael

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2015, 03:14:58 PM »
Ya, see I don't want that at all. I don't want my lineman running anywhere near the ball, unless thats their assignment.

I've always believed that RB's need room to work. The more bodies near the ball, the less room they have. I want my backs & recievers setting screens in the open field, but I don't want my lineman running toward the ball. If their defender turns & runs to the ball, I prefer they move on to the next guy that they have an angle on.

Part of this could just be that I'm a gap scheme guy & you're a zone scheme guy. All of our plays are desigined to pick off the 2nd & 3rd level guys, we have "touchdown" blocks built in. We know for the most part exaxtly where the ball is going. Where as in a zone scheme the ball could go damn newr anywhere, so your lineman all need to stay engaged all the time constantly working up.

And to be clear, I don't tell our guys stop blocking after 3-4 seconds. I just tell them that I need max effort for that periord of time. After that you can work up field & set screens, slow down flow. But I don't want them looking to find the ball & running toward it.

Believe me, if we actually catch the RB, he ain't going to be the RB anymore.
“If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein

Offline mahonz

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2015, 03:15:23 PM »
If we lose him it's a race to the ball, and then, if our guys get past him, our guys will generally turn and lean into the guy, basically, while still running.

It's not like a block in the back counts as being on the guy at the whistle.  Hell, blocks in the back are never sustained, so unless they happen AT the whistle, they wouldn't count even if they were legal.

Hmmmmm

Maybe this is where I am making a mistake.

I leave the OLM on the LOS while the others muddle huddle for a play call....in our Regular Offense.

I tell them the only thing they have to know is if the play is a run or a pass. This is done via the cadence. Since they are not creating holes....who cares where the POA is.

Maybe I should change that. The reason I leave them on the LOS is so they have more time to figure out the count if need be.

Collect moments, not wins.

Offline mahonz

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2015, 03:18:44 PM »
Oh ya, when they break away coaches & players yell poison. & sometimes our guy gets tackled. But it's a lot better than having it called back, thats for sure.

J

And you all had a TON of experience calling POISON last season.  8)

Amazing run you all had.  :)
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Online Michael

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Re: The Beast....its not an Offense...its a mind F for the Defense....
« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2015, 03:22:55 PM »
Hmmmmm

Maybe this is where I am making a mistake.

I leave the OLM on the LOS while the others muddle huddle for a play call....in our Regular Offense.

I tell them the only thing they have to know is if the play is a run or a pass. This is done via the cadence. Since they are not creating holes....who cares where the POA is.

Maybe I should change that. The reason I leave them on the LOS is so they have more time to figure out the count if need be.

Being in the huddle with the ball guys is like having to sit boy/girl when you're five.

But what does that have to do with staying on blocks?
“If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein